Are You Sitting Comfortably?

Are you panicking? Getting desperate yet? There seems to be a line from the No fantasists that it’s in the bag and the whole of Yes is frantically searching for a game-changer. Or is that itself just an example of desperation from a campaign which is hated by its own people and which has brought British politics lower than ever before?

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Personally I have no sense of urgency or anxiety about what is happening. I haven’t a moment’s doubt that Scotland is being won over every time some basic facts are presented and I don’t think that is going to change after September. If it doesn’t all come together by the 18th to win over enough Scots to Yes, so be it. The long process is under way and it will come eventually. I am content that we have exposed the threadbare, shrill, self-serving bilge of British nationalist Blighty and it’s stop-at-nothing manipulation of the truth.

For many thousands of us, there is no going back. The discontent that has worried away for decades and helped deliver devolution has grown arms and legs and is an unpredictable monster demanding to be fed. No more will we smile benignly at sleekit promises from the Jim Murphys, Margaret Currans and Johann Lamonts in the belief that, whatever their shortcomings, their heart was in the right place. We now know that isn’t true. Their heart lies in London with financiers, landowners and mercenaries where they work hand-in-glove with Tories, UKIP and the BNP to thwart the advance of social justice in Scotland. They prefer Tories in Westminster to Labour in Scotland.

This unveiling of the reality of Labour’s motives will continue after any No vote. The entire onus will switch to Labour. Their Tory pals will disappear – as will Darling. Labour will be left with the rotting corpse of a system they championed, their own arguments devouring them as the cuts bite, Westminster fails to deliver and the SNP carries on in government.

jackanory

There is no stopping us now. Plans are already being laid for the post-referendum Scotland, win or lose. And they don’t include a lasting reverence to payroll politicians and malleable journalists whose malign grip has held back the kind of reforms and public information that can change lives.

I have been away from our beloved media for most of the last month, only dipping in occasionally. It has made me a happier person. So much of the stuff produced by the conventional outlets has the hand of corporate process on it, of boardroom and marketing, projecting sectoral interests without question. Interesting, isn’t it to remember that in that space we would normally expect to find the CBI, once the enthroned leader of Big Business, now, through scrutiny and exposure, nothing more than a ghost at the banquet. That’s the impact of rigorous examination, strict and fair rules and the cleansing effect of public ridicule. We need more of it.

But one or two items did pique my interest, or at least my astonishment. One of the most breathtaking was Ruth Davidson’s so called essay in, I think, the Herald in which she contradicted everything we know to have been happening since 2011. In her world – if we believe she actually thinks this – our national debate has merely kept us from addressing the real issues of the day like the economy, jobs, welfare and health. This is the constitution as distraction. It betrays the mindset of the hopelessly backward Unionist in which the constitutional settlement is cast in iron and can only be mildly reworked internally. Its existence is an absolute. Without it there is no life, no truth, no reality. They are disciples, real believers…in Monarchy, Military, Elites and Social suppression. People are graded according to social worth and we know who the deserving are – the current government couldn’t make it clearer – low income families are expendable, their quality of life a variable while bankers are worth protecting by law if necessary and at the cost of international prestige.

Davidson, if we really do think an intelligent woman believes this bilge, drops national independence into a box marked Constitutional Mumbo Jumbo. She then picks Economy out of another box and ponders it in isolation. This is Jackanory politics.

The whole point of the Yes movement is to use the constitution as a means to take control of the power to direct policies towards a different Scotland. It is only through the accretion of all powers that we can mould policies that suit our national need and so change our society.

If you’re content that multi national bosses and wholesale tax dodgers should work with public school spivs in an antiquated parliament with 800 of the Undead to run your country, vote No.

Far from distracting Scots, the referendum has been the greatest awakening of political thought in our lifetime, linking votes to poverty and early death, weapons of mass destruction to early intervention to talentless politicians. We KNOW. We know like we’ve never known before…how the country works, who the crooks are, who we can trust and who we can’t. We know how the media works, even the BBC. We know we are misled and mis-sold ideas. We know they are shameless and mendacious. We know we want rid of them and this is our chance.

We used to be told that we can’t change anything. If we vote nothing changes. That isn’t true in Scotland any more. Our votes delivered the SNP, the best government Scotland has ever had. It brought us a government with a social conscience, universal benefits, anti-austerity measures and, for the first time, real vision for Scotland. Nobody else and no system but independence can do that. Devolution can only inch you forward slowly when we are ready to make a transformative leap. And after a No vote, the real strength of Scotland’s case will dissolve completely – London has only delivered some powers because it is terrified of the underlying threat of independence. By showing our own fear of our future, we remove their fear of us. Once that has gone, we are at their mercy.

That’s a payday for Davidson, Ian Taylor, the No-donating boss of tax-dodging Vitol, for Jim Murphy and his nukes and for Salmond-fearing Cameron and his elitist chums.

That realisation is raging through Scotland and it’s a fire that won’t be contained.

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106 thoughts on “Are You Sitting Comfortably?

  1. Wee Jonny Campbell

    “Our votes delivered the SNP, the best government Scotland has ever had”

    “If you’re content that multi national bosses and wholesale tax dodgers should work with public school spivs in an antiquated parliament with 800 of the Undead to run your country, vote No.”

    Perfect Derek.
    I also love this from Alex Massie after JoLa spoke of pooling & sharing –
    “What you see is the intellectual incoherence and bankruptcy of the Scottish Labour Party. A party that hasn’t had a meaningful idea in at least a dozen years. …Labour haven’t really recovered from losing in 2007 let alone 2011. Yi know this is a party that had the sort of arrogance and complacency that swanked around the place speaking as the voice of the people, it turns out that the people don’t think that the Labour Party represents them” Oof!!! Hud that.

  2. gordon murray

    in the event of a No vote the consequences do not bear thinking about for the poor the weak the sick or the infirm, not just of Scotland but right across the UK.
    But the consolation is that we have a general election in the pipeline in which case Labour will reap the bitter harvest of their collaboration with the Tories. The Libdems are already dead men walking.

    Should the parties favouring independence for Scotland gain a majority of the seats here then they will win a mandate to begin negotiating dissolution of the Treaty of Union. No more referendums, go straight to independence!
    Westminster wrote the rules, so if you live by the sword, too bad!

    • dennis mclaughlin

      Something like Ian Smith’s UDI in RHODESIA?, somehow I don’t think the Establishment would let us away with such heroics.
      I think it would degenerate to ‘man the barricades & vive le commune’.

      • gordon murray

        Oh Dennis with the technology and resources at our disposal I really don’t think there would be any need for barricades.
        Besides a wee energy rich nation being bullied by a resource poor larger neighbour?
        I cannot imagine we would want for friends to back up the democratic will of the people of Scotland.
        Consider also that the former UK has all of its eggs in the one basket of the City of London, how vulnerable would that be to UN and EU sanctions, or even market jitters, never mind the number of old scores there are out there waiting to be settled.
        Sleep easy my friend, I am certain that you and I have no need to be concerned.

        • I agree with you Gordon. I remember long ago (1970’s?) Westminster said that if the Scots wanted independence all they needed to do was vote in a majority of MP’s elected on an independence ticket i.e. the SNP. If, in the event of a No vote this year the majority of Scots MP’s next year are SNP I would expect, no make that demand, that Scotland declares the Union dead and buried. “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!”.

          • Antoine Bisset

            Indeed. The current Scottish Parliament could have voted for secession. That they did not was because they wanted to play nice.
            The various declarations of the UN have made it clear that such a move would be fine. after all, if it worked for Kosovo – a small county that had never been either a nation or independent – it should surely work for us.

        • Luckily oil is an infinite resource with a price that’s never been subject to wild fluctuations.

          • Even more luckily Oil is only the icing on the cake

          • gordon murray

            Aye David 50-100years left in the North Sea, significant reserves under the Moray Firth Solway, Forth and Clyde a decent amount left onshore and in the North East Atlantic Margin west of Shetland and the Hebrides the largest oil field in the world with 150-200 years waiting for us. A price varying +/-15p around £130 a barrel will do nicely. And the cake under the cherry and the icing 1,000years of coal 3-23thousand billion tonnes, 100times larger than the largest known till now. Available by underground gasification 6bn tonnes is equivalent to every ounce of natural gas won from the North Sea in 40years. Lucky? hahaha Doesn’t even come close!!!

          • Alastair Ewen

            Luckily, there are people like you who use condescension
            to remind us that we are better than you….

            Sorry, but that’s how I feel.

  3. Craig McLaren

    Excellent as usual, Derek.

    “If you’re content that multi national bosses and wholesale tax dodgers should work with public school spivs in an antiquated parliament with 800 of the Undead to run your country, vote No.”

    This is the No camp’s reality. We know it and so do they. What they may not realise is that the independence genie can never be put back in its bottle now.

    Ordinary folk are politically awake and we won’t settle for anything less than getting our country back.

  4. This morning I saw the article “Independence: Darling warns of ‘Yes’ camp tricks.

    I thought “There is a proper term in psychology for that.” So I hunted around on the internet and found the definition of the term I was thinking of on From UrbanDictionary.com

    Projection (Psychological)
    An unconscious self-defence mechanism characterised by a person unconsciously attributing their own issues onto someone or something else as a form of delusion and denial.

    I think that “Yes is frantically searching for a game-changer.” is more of the same.

    • As much as we can all appreciate a psychological evaluation on an entire body of political opinion based on a website, perhaps we could turn the forensic microscope on to yourself, bjsalba.

      Could you be projecting YOUR desperation onto the Better Together campaign?

      • OK, David explain to all us thickos why Alex Salmond was warned (that word again) not to politicise the Commonwealth Games when the very people warning him have done just that. I suggest you read the Wee Ginger Dug on the subject (see the article entitled ‘No Bad’). He puts it much more eloquently than I can.

  5. say it, Derek, say it!

  6. Clare Tereasa Gallagher

    I’ve been following you for a while, and I’d just like to say, it’s refreshing to see that journalistic integrity isn’t completely dead! Thank You sir

  7. I couldn’t agree more, Derek. However, my fear is that, after a no vote, Westminster will rewrite the rules to make sure there is no legal means of holding a further referendum. Frustration will undoubtedly increase when the No camp’s lies are exposed, but what outlet will the Scottish people have to make their views known and to act on them.

    • if it came to it and the democratic will of Scots were to be flouted by Whitehall I really don’t think we would need do anything, international outrage would soon settle the issue.
      But Whitehall knows that we have the ability to stop commercial activity in London within hours if we so choose through non violent interventions.
      They know that we know it too. It just would not happen.

      • With you all the way Gordon, there is no way this genie is going back into the bottle. This time is the right time and some how I can just see half the population saying fine you won. What with the lying and cheating going on I just cannot for one moment believe that.
        Great Post Derek, back home with a bang.

  8. Will the rest of the world look on scotland as a cowardly people if we refuse to stand on our own 2 feet?

    • No, I suspect that the rest of the world will either:
      a) recognise that through a democratic referendum people have decided to keep a Union that’s created one of the more successful countries in the world.
      b) not care.
      c) thought that Scotland was part of England and not understand what the deal was.

      • One of the most successful countries in the world? Aye, if you’re in the top 5% maybe.

        How can you possibly make such a ridiculous suggestion when so many people are forced to visit foodbanks just so they can feed their weans?

    • david, I’m sure lots of people abroad will see us as exactly that. Scotland the Brave no more.

      Given that the ‘No Scotland’ campaign is all based on fears, misinformation & scaremongering a No vote will be the result of that scare tactic working.

      A ‘democratic’ decision will have been made based on falsehoods. What will come out in the wash however is how much misinformation (polite way of saying ‘lies’) was used.

      No doubt it will take 30 years, as per the McCrone Report, but the truth will out.

      Also, many of the lies will come out sooner as actions speak louder than words & Westminster is gey found of saying one thing and then doing another.

  9. I was debating on RT NEWS, and I got told to go away and concentrate on the Scottish referendum, saying to me, that I will probably be voting no as I am a moron. The namecalling concluded that I was winning the debate. And the persons opinion is also quite clear what the outside world would think of us if we vote no. MORONS!

  10. Every time we hear the mantra “hard-working families” from Miliband, Balls, Curran and Lamont, it is the code signal for “we will give priority to people in employment, and we will no longer stand up and be counted for people who are unemployed – people with disabilities, lone parents, carers and others.” It feels like they are now more interested in power than the people their party was founded to represent. But then, what can you expect from a party which was content to retain a war criminal as its leader less than 10 years ago

    Even amongst UK union supporters, how many really think things will get better under Westminster, and how many have been overtaken by concerns about the risks from independence stoked up by the most disgraceful and dishonest political campaign of my lifetime. And contrast – from the wide range of independence campaign groups – the most inspirational, vibrant and optimistic visions of a Scotland which would be worth working for.

  11. Ms Davidson’s statement revealed just why the BT argument is so very shallow and self serving. No scope, no vision, no humanity. They are terrified of a popular sovereignty, of our representatives being within reach and accountable directly to the electorate. The outdated and vile system of the UK is well past its sell by date. The point, in case Ms Davidson was sleeping in class, of this constitutional debate and an independent Scotland is that a government mandated solely by and accountable to the Scottish electorate can prioritise ALL of our resources to tackle those REAL problems.

    No more contributions to Trident, HS2, Westminster expenses or vanity projects, but consider those monies diverted directly to whatever we deem most necessary. I’m sure we can make up a suitable to do list by ourselves. We’ve got lots to choose from. 🙂

  12. The Westminster establishment’s ability to conceal the truth has been demonstrated often enough to be frighteningly reminiscent of dictatorships and all done with the evident connivance of the media. The more they succeed the more they are encouraged to continue. But what is even more alarming is to realize that they don’t even have to be very good at it. This is no smooth, remorseless machine of sci-fi imagining exerting mind control. It is actually an old, rickety apparatus with bits that fall off from time to time. However, there is always the media to come along to sweep the detritus from the latest scandal away, put a screen up and distract us with shiny things.

    The scary bit is human nature and how ready it is to be fooled. The real ending to the story of the Emperor’s new clothes would have the crowd pause at what the boy has said, realize almost immediately what that said about their own gullibility and witlessness before charlatans, then they would skelp the boy on the ear and send him off home – and carry on cheering.

    I am afraid that just as there are people wakening up to the unscrupulous propagandizing, that there are also those who would rather believe. I hope that you and others are right, Derek, about people not being willing to be fooled twice and that this all-or-nothing approach of the BT establishment might cause the wheels to come off their wagon completely, that even if they win this time they won’t be able to get the wreckage to look like a functioning entity any more – they’ll have blown all the gaskets this time round. I hope.

  13. Derek I wonder if you have contemplated your own more strident stance since you started blogging and speaking at meetings, this is an observation not a criticism. At the start you were more open to the notion of BT/No Thanks/BBC4statusquo campaign arguments you urged them to bring forth the benefits of the union beyond the soundbytes we have grown accustomed to being exposed to broad shoulders, family of nations guff. I wondered if the vacuum created by the positives had made you more exasperated and that has impacted on your own thoughts as you sought to find alternatives.

    I haven’t and some of the stuff they have placed the importance on is proof that the political elite of the British state are so far removed from the reality of peoples lives. The’ economic recovery’ has been manufactured rather than it happening due to manufacturing. I was struck recently when the announcement of another Ghandi sculpture was proposed for London as part of a deal with India.
    The news report orated the views of Parliament on Mr Ghandi’s visit and the stark disregard and sense of superiority was as prevelant then as it is now in terms of nationhood and the need of the establishment to undermine others to make themselves superior without examining exactly what is/was/or if in possessed that exulted position.

    • Indeed. I think the utter banality and childish insulting non arguments have reduced us all to incredulity. Even when they are answered the lies continue. Even when they are corrected, the lies continue. Even when their backers are tax dodging cheats, the lies continue. This will be the subject of serious reflection by academics afterwards and seen for what it really is. Expect Alistair to blame someone else. the tories certainly will.

      • Thanks Derek it has been a puzzling, sometimes amusing others its throwing the remote at the television screen. For me its now these people are so discredited that they are ingrained in the game of electioneering within a head to head political system that agreeing or even accepting any element of independence could be a positive. Typically they start off with the “of course Scotland could be an independent country” then bring up every scare story and straw men, so how did every other country manage to achieve their independence and be a progressive democracy.

        The recent stuff with with the Red Arrows is beyond parody and demonstrates the fear but also the total lack of understanding of the level of debate and aspirations of the electorate. This would have passed without incident lost in the spectacle of the ceremony but to intervene in a clear political decision ridicules their own stance while exhibiting their own failures and level they will stoop to.

        Our own political class on the unionist side have lost all respect and the usage of invented problems with cross border medical services was beyond mere gamesmanship its fraudulent and displays why these people are inapppropriate to represent anyone.

        • Antoine Bisset

          Never mind the Red Arrows, what about the Union Flags on the helmets of the English cyclists at the Games?

      • Has Gordon Brown withdrawn his remarks about the NHS in Scotland after independence, which were shown to be nonsense?
        I may have missed this.

  14. I genuinely pray that I am wrong but is it not more possible that Scotland, post NO, may fall into the torpor of the 1980’s once again. A collective loss of nerve on the 18th September morphing into a collective loss of national self confidence as Scots accept their lot within a context of an inferior British regional identity.

    Sadly memories are short. The Labour party, exposed and reviled by many now, will offer themselves up in 2015, as they have done in every general election, as the cohesive “British” defence against English Toryism. The Scottish voter as it dawns on them what they have done might be willing once again to sent another pointless phalanx of Labour troughers back to Westminster.
    SLAB will make a point of painting the SNP as confrontational and irrelevant after the referendum defeat and only likely to infuriate a political elite in London holding the whip hand, who they will argue need to reassured as to Scottish loyalty to the Union State before any crumbs of further devolution are forthcoming.

    The Scottish media which having played the role of handmaidens to the Unionist win will be full of soothing stories and diversions designed to anesthetise the population and wipe the campaign for self government from the collective memory. Propaganda sentimentalising the Scottish role in the British past will be ramped up to new heights. Pacific Quay will be charged with this key role of putting the Scots to sleep.

    The one thing which may disrupt this sorry tale is the impending collapse of the debt ridden, unequal, bankrupt British economy, which is heading for a major bust. This I feel is the Achilles heel in the Unionist game plan post NO and the arithmetic pointing to remorseless decline is something they, in truth, can do little about. This too is where SLAB will be undone as both major UK parties will in effect offer managed decline to Scots. We may win in September, we may lose and if we do, we will still win the war. Independence is inevitable, it is a mere question of when.

    • gordon murray

      Jake the torpor of the 80s was the direct response to the 78 Argentina fiasco.
      We got gallus and carried away with ourselves; north sea oil, the SNP doing well, the 74 world cup undefeated and the width of the woodwork from beating Brazil. Then the Peru game, the drugs scandal and the Iran game. Then gubbing the Netherlands, but not by enough.
      If we had qualified for the next round I am convinced that Scotland would be independent already!
      But after that Labour shot itself in the head, Kinnock, Foot, clause 4, they could do nothing to save us from the wicked witch and all the black arts she deployed against us.
      That torpor was the effect, not the cause.

      • I can see the point you are making Gordon but the submission of the Scots in the 1980’s to Unionism cannot be just explained by the post Argentina hangover from the 1978 World Cup
        Faith that the feeble 50 could deliver for Scotland was still widely assumed and my fear is that it may be again because political engagement will be on Unionist terms should there be a NO vote. A British economic bust will be the corrective to shatter any resurrection of “Labour Scotland”

        • you don’t think that Donald Dewar getting shot of any competition for his place as First Minister in Scotland,
          and Honest Tony, then Gordon Brown each sucking up to Margaret Thatcher, tea & sandwiches at No10 professing undying affection and admiration in a bid to reclothe New Labour in Tory blue kinda already did the job for you?

          28% of their most faithful who even voted Labour in 2011 are now saying Yes to independence!

          Labour think their unpopularity is because we are too stupid to comprehend their message. Same as with the wicked witch herself.

          Labour walked away from its grassroots in Scotland.

          Only in an independent Scotland, after a serious Londonectomy, can Labour in Scotland ever hope to rediscover its moral compass, and win back the trust and support of the once blindly obedient support here.

        • Jake, this is was always a possibility but one I am beginning to disregard. Too many people are mobilised and they do not belong to the SNP. They are free willed and independent many of any Political Party. They are not going to shut up and sit still for what has been a very dirty campaign by the NO side, I refuse to use the NAW word for them they want to become second class English they can. As for Scots being reviled, let the NO’s feel the pain I will not be insulted as a YES voter.

          • I am still out leafleting almost daily for YES and have in no way given up hope of a win. But I began speculating as to the political landscape post NO. Like you I am hoping that the energy of the campaign will not dissipate and that for example the collapsing SLAB membership will continue to hollow out their base, making any kind of recovery for them very, very difficult. People too will hopefully see how they were duped into a NO vote by SLAB as they face massive austerity cuts.

            But they are embedded in the BBC at the highest levels in Scotland and have a stable of supportive press journalists. Both weapons that will be used to help effect their recovery.

            If there is a NO we need to think of how the campaign might be refocused and retained, given a new objective or mission. We cannot allow what which has been created to be lost.

    • I seem to recall that we recovered from the torpor of the 1980s, and some of us kept campaigning even then!

      • I remember the 1980s vividly. I remember that Thatcher had a run of good luck. The international oil price stabilised, and with that, the economy generally. It had nothing to do with her, but she got all the credit. Rampant inflation was finally controlled. Wildcat strikes were outlawed. Both of these issues had concerned ordinary Labour voters who were not of the Militant Tendency stripe. Which was most of them. The Cold War seemed to be defrosting. The West seemed to be winning. Scottish oil was now benefitting the economy. It had a positive effect on the pound, and on international confidence in sterling. Labour were in disarray (trying to isolate Militant) and meanwhile the new Social Democratic Party was a disastrous failed attempt at finding a middle way and merely split the Labour vote in the first past the post voting system, letting in the Tories in 83. It was a time of shift, when some things seemed to be getting better (inflation under control; £ stronger) whilst at the same time other things were getting worse (Tory austerity; jobs less secure; people working longer hours for less pay). In such a scenario the constitutional question went on the back boiler until after the second Tory election, when the unresolved issue of the 79 referendum began to gain some more traction. There just was a huge amount of upheaval in the 1970s and the dust needed to settle. I once commented to Margo Macdonald at a Scottish United meeting years later that I had found the 70s very confusing, a mass of strikes and emergency measures, IMF loan, and that I got the winter of discontent that brought down the Callaghan government mixed up with the three day week that brought down the Heath government, it was all such a mad blur, and she quipped, sharp as a tack:

        ‘Aye. That wis the seventies a’right. If ye werenae confused, ye werenae there!’

        • gordon murray

          I was there and printed one of Margo’s election leaflets for Govan.
          Thatcher lucked into North Sea Oil money that paid for record unemployment that she called Monetarism, we called it Thatcherism, as she settled the scores with the TUC for bringing down Ted Heath. She destroyed our heavy industries to be rid of the trades unions that fed off of them. With those she destroyed the communities where they operated.
          She claimed there was no such thing as society and introduced the Poll Tax. Thatcher the milk snatcher was the most hated political figure since the war
          Then the Falklands. If her funding cuts to the military had worked through to completion her fate would have been sealed there and then. As it was she escaped by the skin of her teeth and bathed in the reflected glory of the victory paid for in blood by loyal professional British forces.
          She could now do no wrong, but was ably assisted by a Labour party that won all of the debates but tripped up over our fear of the USSR and nuclear armageddon in promising unilateral nuclear disarmament.
          You know the rest.

  15. A YES vote will mean Scotland becomes a country, whereas a No vote will mean Scotland remains a region of England. That is the choice.

  16. Everyone should realise that if the there is a No vote, Labour are expecting to take over all the content and energy that is in the Yes vote to work for them.
    You hear that in Douglas Alexander’s getting together for a forum and asking the SNP to pledge to ‘work together’ shaping the future of Scotland.
    Of course they are also going to get Labour MPs ‘back up the road’ to blah, blah, blah. Of course forgetting there is an SNP Government in place and there will be in 2016.

    I think they are going to find themselves on an empty dock, because the ship has sailed.

    • SCED – “if the there is a No vote, Labour are expecting to take over all the content and energy that is in the Yes vote to work for them.”

      A chilling comment and a warning that must really hit home to anyone who has worked long and hard for the Yes cause.

      • Honestly Marga can you see those who have worked so hard for a YES vote getting into bed with them, in their dreams.

        • lastchancetoshine

          While they have continually insulted and patronised us – those who used to vote for them, not realising they need us. Nope they have to be replaced and by people who will follow through on their promises.

          YES or NO they have alienated at least a third of their own support, not by campaigning for a no vote but by the way they have chosen to go about it. even those of us who couldn’t be considered core SNP support are sick fed up of the “oppose the SNP on EVERYTHING even if it’s a policy that’s bang in line with your supposed principals”.

    • With my working class background I should be a “natural” Labour voter, but I’ve never voted for them. I’ve also never believed in the “if you can’t beat them, join them” ethos which Labour now so obviously do with regard to the establishment they were created to oppose. Consequently I’ll not be lending support in any form to Labour in the future regardless of any blandishments. I’d sooner cut my hand off than vote for “Scottish Labour” (sic).

  17. @AngryWeegie

    As Gordon Murray first up correctly points out, if after a No vote we send a clear majority of SNP MPs to Westminster they will have been handed a mandate to negotiate independence without a referendum.

    That is what Ireland did. They elected a majority of Sinn Fein MPs who promptly began a parliament in Dublin and were arrested violently. That is not going to happen again. Europe for a start won’t stand for it.

    If, after such a vote Westminster refuses to negotiate Alex Salmond gives notice and if he is also ignored he declares unilateral independence as the only route left.

    I forget which one but a pollster recently asked for Westminster 2015 voting intentions post a No vote and Labour support crumbles and goes entirely to the SNP. Remember Labour has been doing nothing but burning their political capital in Scotland on the bonfire of BT and getting a No vote. That will be the consequence. Once the absence of meaningful or any extra powers, the extra cuts and the ‘reform’ of Barnett come in nobody in Scotland will need urging to vote SNP. I bet I can make my Labour voting No supporting wife to do so once she sees what will actually happen and not happen after a No vote. She isnae stupid, just a bit tribal and blinkered. Those are fixable with sufficient shock.

    • Hmmm…. I wish. What seems to be happening though is that Scottish voters vote SNP at Holyrood elections because they trust the SNP more in that forum. It’s not necessarily a vote for independence. But for the socialist policies SNP deliver. But they still seem to feel their interests in a British forum are best protected by Labour. I wonder if that will now change, or will change enough by 2015?

  18. One of the things that has emerged from this process for me is the realisation that ‘Britain’ practices a role of inserting itself into Scottish affairs as oversight,obstruction or party spoiler.
    When Salmond went to America we had him hounded by Darling and Lord Robertson,the Bannockburn commemorations had the Armed forces day,the Commonwealth opening had us sing God save the queen with the two-faced flags and the red arrows.
    I have went from plain no trusting them to actively despising their every intervention.

  19. You’re right, Derek, “it’s a fire that won’t be contained.” I met three young family members today, home on holiday, and since my dog was wearing her YES bandana ( !! ) they immediately asked for information on the referendum. One of the boys said he’d never been interested in politics but this “seemed to be different.” The young girl was extremely keen to investigate further. I have to say I was delighted with the three of them……all in their early twenties and determined, now, to unearth info on the “net” starting with newsnetscotland. ( Best thing ever, by the way, that handy little note of all the relevant web sites.)

    Yes, we’re on the road to independence and not before time!

  20. You’re right, Derek. There is no going back. The independence genie has been let out of the bottle and it will never go back in. I firmly believe it will be a yes vote in September. I just wont accept that everyone I’ve talked to who says they are voting yes are just having me on. I do believe the absolute noes though. There’s no changing their minds. They have convinced themselves that the union is so important that they cant see the wood for the trees. However, when it comes to undecideds I don’t actually think they are undecided. Those I’ve spoken to are Yes voters who just need a wee bit reassurance.

    The people are engaged in politics as never before and that will continue whether a yes or no vote. If it does turn out to be No, just remember this:
    It is better to fail at that which will ultimately succeed than to succeed at something that will ultimately fail.

  21. Excellent article Derek, well said.

  22. @Patrickroden – much as most of us realise that you are quoting from a certain Ian Davidson when you mention “bayonet” you must realise that that is exactly the section of your post which could be taken out of context and used to demonstrate that “Cybernats” are advocating violence.

    We need to stay above their smears, attacks and troll diversions. Yes, counter their lies with evidence and a positive case, but take care not to allow them even wriggle room to blame us. As it is, they are doing pretty well convincing the undecideds to vote YES. To paraphrase Napoleon “Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake!”

  23. I like a good turn of phrase: “CBI – nothing more than a ghost at the banquet”. Banquo only had any effect on the mad, delirious, would-be king, Macbeth, and look what happened to him!

    • Aye David, but Macbeth was a good King, certainly not the one depicted by the very sooky uppy Shakespeare for Jamie the Sixth.

  24. It may be a heart that’s been an SNP activist since way back, but was only 7 in 1979 and didn’t know what happened then

    it may be a heart that wonders what our future will hold with yes vote

    but it is a heart that utterly utterly loves this land

    it is a heart that knows the collective wild free heart of ScotlandI beats true and strong for the right things

    it wants no corruption

    it want to look after it’s people

    it want to make life better for all

    for those that have gifts

    for those that would have a gift if given the chance

    I can’t even begin to put into words the hope I hold for my nation

    I can’t believe that I have this chance to have this hope (I was out there when we were lucky to get 6% of the vote and yet we ended with a majority in a parliament set up to never allow that to happen)

    Hope for a better way in a country that I love sooooo much, that even if it’s a no I won’t desert her

    I will always be so utterly proud to be Scottish

    and so utterly proud that she has taken on this challenge to change, without violence, with the ability to be open to the other side, and don’t for one second underestimate the power of being willing to listen and challenge and change people views

    that is what has happen here

    God, I truly love my country

    Her wild free fiercely beating heart is who I am

    and will always be

  25. There is certainly a level of dynamic in Scotland that was not there 12-18 months ago. People are inquiring, they are showing an interest and one thing’s for sure they do not want to be lied to.

    Which of course they have been, as if, as by the one organisation, through an organised and corrupt media and when that penny drops, as it assuredly will drop..!

    It’s a pity in some sense that ‘Establishment UK’ has let itself be trashed by despicable self-seekers.

    Any rigor and standing, which a respected UK had built up, has, over the past couple of generations, for people who do remember things, been tossed away, now well ditched and irrecoverable.

    To put the icing on the monster cake they now seek to scrap the jewel in the UK crown – the NHS – and for what – to pay for WMDs and aircraft carriers with no aircraft and ludicrously, it appears, with no defense against ballistic missile attack. Twelve minutes, it is reported, will be the engaged battle life for these ships.

    And we have FOOD BANKS, opened by an obscenely smug and smiling Danny Alexander who claims to have highhandedly screwed the oil companies and just so happened to also have halted North Sea oil development !!!

    Talk about loonies and asylums!

    • gordon murray

      up until the White Paper outlining the SNPs ideas on what an independent Scotland might look like the only debate was about dry techinical issues that very few got worked up about outside of the chattering classes.
      Once that document was released it became the focus of BTNT attacks, as if this was the sole option available after independence.
      While they attempted to produce a presidential campaign, demonising alicsammin and the SNP, the ordinary public have gone onto the internet to check things out for ourselves.

      As Derek points out it doesn’t leave the No campaign looking either credible or creditable.
      Only those who need to believe the No campaign are taken in by the stupid lies being pumped out. We’ve been hearing them for 40years, do these people think we have the intellectual rigour of a kitchen table?

      We recognise Sir Humphreyisms, we are familiar with Blackadder, and at times it feels as though we are actually living through an episode ourselves and anticipating the next pratfall from the official stuffed shirts

      This period is going to be the stuff of PHDs for many many moons into the future.That notion of telling a lie but making it a really big one to get believed is going to be consigned to dusty history books.

  26. I spoke to a tourist today from Essex. He was visiting for the Commonwealth Games. The coversation turned to the referendum and I told him I would be voting Yes and mainly for moral reasons-I don’t like being lied to or bullied. He seemed relieved(?) and agreed with my reasons for Yes. He said, “I’ve been shocked by the viciousness with which Scotland and the Scots have been attacked by the Westminster government and the press.”

    Those were his exact words as best I can recall. I said I was impressed and thanked him for the close interest he had clearly been taking in our affairs as he had very much got the measure of how things had progressed. He assured me his interest was only a passing one but that it was obvious what had been going on. I almost felt he wanted to apologise! We shook hands and he walked off. It was a real pleasure to meet him and I just wanted to share that experience with others on this blog.

    • Hmmm… very interesting. I wonder if this will cause him to query other lies the British establishment are telling the English?

  27. lastchancetoshine

    My favourite post of yours so far.

    Yet I take issue with the idea that Ruth Davidson is misrepresenting what she thinks is going on. The truth is that those in the bubble of unionism have not truly looked over this side of the fence and seen just how motivated we have become. She sees the debate as a distraction because she has not engaged to any real extent and not seen what is going on first hand.

    Many in Team Labour have an inkling and that’s what scares the smarter ones like Dugdale who haveing nailed their colours to the mast are a bit stuck while the Darlings, and (Ian) Davidsons just don’t get it. They really do believe we are a bunch of nuts who can be dismissed as a protest movement.

    Having said that however, there is still the majority who do not share our enthusiasm for change and frankly don’t really have enough interest and see the whole thing as a bit of an inconvenience, Unfortunately most of those still hold your past employers in reverence and although they may have leanings to social justice a lot of them will either share Ruth’s lack of insight or simply have switched off altogether.

    We need to reach those people and unfortunately I just don’t know how because they aren’t searching out answers for themselves.

  28. Kenny Higgins

    Yet another excellent article Derek. We must remain positive as there have not been any votes cast yet. Ignore the Polls, which can be easily twisted or influenced through the way they are positioned or pitched.

    There is all to play for and as each day comes along, it brings with it the realisation of exactly what the vote really means. There is no going back. If the resolve of the YES camp continues to be strong, honest and sensible, there is always the increasing possibility of further own goals hitting the NO camp, who I believe are increasingly volatile, with many cringing at their conscience, which has been drifting them away from what they know deep down is the right decision for Scotland. A YES Vote.

    I predict an exodus of uncertain, wavering NO voters when the time comes, there are many of them. We know undecideds are more drawn to the benefits of Independence. Everyone is able to change their mind right up until the point when the pen touches the paper. INDEPENDENCE IS STILL VERY WINNABLE.

    • If they’re undecided, surely they’re not drawn to either side?

      • Kenny Higgins

        David, I think you know exactly what I am suggesting: But please let me clarify it further for you. Those currently undecided are most likely to drift towards a YES decision as has been observed and acknowledged from many neutral sources in recent months. Even the No camp and several political commentators not known for a pro-Independence genre have admitted this through extensive research on voting intentions. I accept there will be a few undecideds right up to the time they enter the polling station when Scotland’s sovereignty lies in their hands to influence one way or another.

  29. this has just flashed up on my spotify link:

    http://www.gov.uk/scottishreferendum

    can this be allowed by the Electorate Commission? who’s paying for this?

  30. If no win some of us will be so desperate that they will have to start fishing and catching rabbits,I cant see us allowing our fellow citizens to get that bad a deal.

  31. In absolute agreement Derek. Genie is, indeed, out the bottle. A ‘no’ will be hard to take but i believe a movement has begun. The unionist establishment has shown it’s hand and, whatever he result, the lies, deceit and manipulation will motivate a huge grassroots campaign to keep fighting for a Scottish nation.

  32. lastchancetoshine

    I must admit , in the event of a no vote I will find myself despondent and motivation difficult to find in the knowledge that our fellow citizens see that as the right way forward.

    The only option then is to pick ourselves up and sort out the social justice and equality issues ourselves, in spite of them. Quite how I’m not sure. I’d like to see new businesses thriving, shipping our products direct from Scottish ports, building boats for trade, not war. Small business’s working together oh if only we could persuade them to pay part of their profits direct into the third sector rather than let it be taxed to Westminster, with only a part returned at subsistence rates. A self imposed tax if you like (some hope) Organisations in that third sector that train and educate, build affordable homes and remove the causes of poverty that should have gone long ago.

    Here we are surrounded by water and the only ships we build are for killing, we are swimming in natural power sources: wind, waves, streams, rivers not to mention the “wrong kind of oil” with a decent level of education and fantastic skill base(all be it ageing). It takes a special kind of organisational skill to take that and still not be able to feed everyone.

    And there’s still people who think this system doesn’t need torn up up and replaced never mind fixed. WTF is going on in their heads that makes them think this is acceptable?

  33. lastchancetoshine

    Sorry I’ve been staring at this really dull screen all day, I’ve only had a glass and a half of wine you know.

  34. As most folk are aware oil is scarce or running out. Its also volatile, difficult to get at, not worth anything really and a bit of a bother all round according to our friends in Westminster (yeah, I’m looking specifically at Osborne, Alexander and the OBR here) and that’s their considered expert opinion. Oh and whatever is there, is best handled by them, because they’re a good safe pair of hands who, because they have broad shoulders, can more than handle all that bother for us with no need for any thanks as they luuuurve us soooo much.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-unlikeliest-places/

    and today?

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/financial-times-investors-magazine-westminster-is-playing-down-potential-oi.24868958

    The relevant line from the original article in the FTs Investors chronicle, a publication where rich people advise richer people on how to become richer yet is…

    “We think that Westminster has been deliberately downplaying the potential of the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS) ahead of September’s referendum on Scottish independence.”

    If you are undecided because you’re unsure on who to trust about your future well being, well that’s a big heads up. One side of this debate has been lying their collective arses off for over forty years about a resource of yours.

    Were I undecided and having read both linked articles above, I may be feeling somewhat peeved at being ripped off and lied to for those forty odd years.

    (Link to the FT original is included in that first link, but I’m not rich enough to get through the paywall)

  35. Cag-does-thinking

    Another great article. I know you are very busy trying to get the message out in various formats but your written word here is very effective. I think to be fair to Ruth Davidson she is just a career politician following party line and argument and in that aspect she isn’t bad or good because it isn’t uniquely her vision. I don’t really think she’s got the touch that Annabel Goldie had who probably was the most repected Tory politician of her generation. Although I didn’t share her political view I always listened to what she said in stark contrast to many of the current encumbents at Holyrood.

    What is most disappointing from their point of view is the paucity of the argument. With such a weak hand it is scarcely a debate any more it’s almost a situation where they have to tell a deliberate lie in a soundbite or simply just not turn up for the debate; neither tactic is likely to win!

    I do like that quote “Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake” we just need to continue to do what we are doing as it’s working in the best way possible. The public are working this out for themselves and it’s probably the biggest change in my lifetime in perception and that genie doesn’t go back in the bottle.

  36. Davidson was the one who went to an English Tory party conference to declare that 8 out of 10 Scottish households had contributed nothing to the success of the UK. Osborne, declared that Scotland had contributed nothing to the success of Sterling. That statement reduced Scotland’s role in the Union to a 300yr old act of charity. Lies. Every single word of it, lies. And its not just them, its pouring out from the mouths of useful idiots like Lamont, Rennie, Sarwar, Curran. Its repeated endlessly by the press, We are saturated in this endless shower of miserablist thinking.

    The one sole achievement of this for me, is to make Britishness synonymous with mendacity, propped up by belligerent imbecility. I have never seen such a dishonest and yet incompetent campaign. They have committed unpardonable folly in the defence of this Union. Their campaign has only inflamed a lot of anger south of the border, so much so, that Scotland simply does not have a future in the Union now.

  37. I hear a lot of people starting to get their heads into a losing mindframe. To win, you have to have a winning mentality and that means staying positive and doing everything possible to win. A focussed determination, just like all the great medallists at the CW games, is what is needed. Let’s not start licking our wounds, we have 6 weeks left and we can do this, and we must do this, so please let’s pull together for these 6 weeks and make it happen.

  38. I have detected a negative frame of mind on several indy blogs, most noticeably from some who hint at “other measures” after a NO vote. They want you to think that there is a likelihood of a NO vote, and they may also be trying to stir up a reaction which the MSM can then magnify and claim as “threats” against ordinary mums and the like..

    This is pure trolling, but unfortunately it is effective, since some people respond. Remember folks, don’t feed trolls, they want you to waste your time. Focus on our positive message, keep on campaigning and we will be independent in no time, to coin a phrase 😉

  39. I’m an EU citizen currently living in England but about to relocate to Scotland. During a visit to prepare the move, I was asked whether Scotland should go for independence. My answer: ‘you’d be absolutely daft not to!’.

    Reading some of the earlier replies though, I do believe some people here are deluding themselves if they consider an unilateral declaration of independence as a viable option.

    The key difference between Scotland and Catalonia’s drive for independence is that, in Spain, the Constitution will be used to barr it from happening. In the UK, on the contrary, it’s seen as as a fully constitucional process (ie, Edinburgh agreement).

    If No wins, Scottish independence will be dead and buried for a *very* long time. The only reason Westminster agreed having the referendum in the first place was because they’re totally convinced the Union would prevail – hence why they also vetoed the devo-max option to be balloted.

    Realising independence is, after all, a real risk, once they have a No they’ll make sure it won’t happen again. The worst is that they’ll rightly claim to have a mandate from Scotland to do just that.

    • gordon murray

      Steu where to start. Scotland starts from the stand that she was a sovereign nation that volunteered to share sovereignty with England and is fully entitled to retract that position if that is the democratic will of the people in Scotland.
      This principle was given as long ago as 40 years ago by Westminster. There is no way on earth that they could backtrack on this without the world crashing in on them.
      If Scots elect a majority of MPs to Westminster with a independence prospectus then that is a mandate. Under first past the post them’s the rules. No ifs no buts no mebbes.
      Frankly the former UK would be in a very weak bargaining position: her economy under seige by all and sundry, unsustainable service costs on national debt.
      The only reason they agreed to this referendum was because it was the settled will of the Scottish electorate, Westminster had no choice.
      We are the People,when we say Yes nothing and no-one will stop us.

      • lastchancetoshine

        “The only reason they agreed to this referendum was because it was the settled will of the Scottish electorate”

        The only reason they agreed to this referendum is they believed we couldn’t win.

        Even if we returned 100% pro indi MPs after a No vote we will not have any such mandate as we we will have accepted our place as a region. We will have previously voted to accept the will of westminster and what ever the majority there decides is best for us. That’s the point. We either make our decisions here or have them made there, there’s no half way house and there’s only one chance to change it for decades.

        • gordon murray

          lastchancetoshine: sorry sunshine I have to disagree!
          First up I don’t think for a moment that we will lose our referendum vote in September. The MSM can spin it any which way from Sunday, but the evidence is there in front of your eyes. When did you ever see anything like what is now happening all over Scotland in your life?
          But the Westminster first past the post system means we only have to return a majority of MPs in favour of independence to Westminster to win the right to negotiate the terms for Scottish independence. That was the position laid down before the first devolution referendum and nothing since has changed that. Thatcher and Blair even, both said it.
          We were promised a devolution referendum on the basis of 13 SNP MPs returned during the 70s, causing complete panic in the ranks of Whitehall. Can you imagine the reaction of double or more of those numbers?
          Could you imagine the reverberations around the world, and on the City of London, if Westminster did not recognise the democratic will of the majority of the Scottish electorate?
          Westminster would be eaten alive for breakfast by its own and the the world media, the EU council of ministers and the UN.
          As was said in another context: they have to win every contest, we only have to win the last.

          • lastchancetoshine

            “Thatcher and Blair even, both said it.”

            Oh that’ll be all right then, as there were obviously completely trustworthy and their words binding on all future governments.

            If the opinions of the minority of MPs we can elect were of such great influence, we’d not be having this conversation at all.

          • Precisely. It’s either a Yes to independence (that I fully support, by the way) or forget about it for a very, very long time! Salmond himself says it, for at least a generation… Any other considerations would actually be counterproductive from a Yes perspective, especially with the undecided in mind. When it comes to independence, take it now or leave it.

          • gordon murray

            No guys, the point is every PM before devolution made the same consession that if the majority of Scots voted for independence Westminster would be obliged to concede it to them. What this meant was a majority of seats returning SNP MPs. Since devolution the attention has been directed to Holyrood but the same basic premise remained, only with Labour weighing their ballots rather than counting them a scenario where they could be defeated by the nationalists was never seriously considered.
            They lost in 2007 but put it down as a freek result, a protest vote, but were routed in 2011. Oddly some still stick to the forlorn hope that in 2015 all will be forgotten and forgiven. Even amongst that hard core Labour faithfull that stayed loyal in 2011 between a quarter and a third of them say they will reject Labour’s unionists and defy them to vote Yes in September.
            Something very radical has escaped from the bottle and this genie ain’t for returning.

          • gordon murray

            Curious though that neither of you would accept the word of Blair or Thatcher but you accept as gospel the word of Alex Salmond?
            I would simply suggest that Salmond may habe a very short shelf life in the event of a No vote in September and that his assurances can in no way bind future generations. Remember No has to win Every time, Yes only need to win the last time.

          • lastchancetoshine

            Deary me , the slip of the concern troll, can’t resist the temptation to brand us all Salmond’s puppets based on the most tenuous of assumptions while you know nothing about me. For your information I trust no-one I don’t know personally and few of them. I see indi as the best way we have to hold our representatives to account – all of them. and will judge them on their actions.

            Still – I admire your dedication and wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Maybe with your next persona you’ll exercise a bit more self discipline?

          • Lastchancetoshine you Muppet! I’ll give you friggin troll! One of us is posting under a nomedeguerre and I tell you it ain’t me!
            You would do better to actually read my posts and know your friends from your enemies before you go off on one next time. Derek could confirm my name and address match and I do have a timeline on facebook easy enough to check, I’m the one in red.

  40. Out on the streets, canvassing & talking to everyone I meet, the impression I get is that Yes is way ahead. When I read all the nonsense in the MSM & on the BBC I start to wonder if I’ve been in all the wrong places, at the wrong time and talking to the wrong people. I think they are building us up to accept that there will be a no vote and it all suddenly started to make sense when I read yesterday that a QUARTER of the votes are postal votes. This is undoubtedly where any cheating will happen. WM has proved time & time again that they will resort to any means, fair or foul, to keep their cash cow. Be afraid. be very afraid!

  41. Scotland is a cash cow for Westminster among other things such as a Trident base and land mass. After a NO vote I believe the shackles and a ball n’ chain will come out. It will be in the form of electoral gerrymandering. Either: a future independence referendum win needs to guarantee a 40% majority (ala 1979) or the vote will need be UK-wide. Simple really, the argument is that democracy is preserved and the people of the United Kingdom, family of nations, is protected. Either of those options will be easily carried through both Houses of Westminster. It will be designed to kill hope and spread apathy… ‘why bother it will never happen’… and in a generation the populace will have been transformed into ‘I’m alright Jack’, however little you have.

    This is why we have a ramping up hate for the poor and sick today, to bring about a sea-change in attitudes that will see the NHS sold off and have the poor and sick abandoned. The UK is being turned into a playground for narcissists because Westminster is full of them and they want us to be like them. What was once a concerned citizen is being transformed into the selfish taxpayer.

    This is why we need to say YES now or Orwell’s union jackboot will be stamping on little Jock’s face forever.

  42. Derek, seems you’ve just ripped off your reticence T- shirt. Me too. A No vote, their core vote seems to be about 28%, would just be half-time for me. All to play for in the second half. Penalties if needed.

    Great article.

  43. Dear Derek, Thanks for your blog. I have been doing my bit down south with two blogs written from an English in England perspective – upholdingenglishhonour.com and englishnationalconversation.wordpress.com. You can tell me off for plugging them here but I think your followers might appreciate them. Best wishes, James

  44. The best reasons for staying in the UK are put here by John Major, and they are all in England’s (or rUK or ‘Westminster’ or whatever it is calling itself’s) interest.

    http://youtu.be/sv3jcAnOjEE

    This is an honest admission by Major, and there is much of weight behind what he says. As a Scot who wants us to be independent, I don’t discount or dismiss this British-wide dimension. Or Major’s concerns about the continuator state(s) and their global influence. They remain concerns for me too.

    However, because of the negativity, immaturity, and mendacity of the No campaign we can’t even begin to have a fair and grown up discussion about these important issues, because the UK as an entity lacks a coherent conception of itself as a state. It has no constitution, it does not reflect on what are its core values or core principles or analyse the weight of its core constituent parts. For too long England has simply assumed itself to be Britain, and to not recognise that Scotland was an equal and essential partner in forming Great Britain.

    If Scotland was extinguished in international law in 1707, so was England, for henceforth no international treaties affecting the joint monarchy, appeared in the name of either Scotland or England, but in the name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Scotland may not have been of equal size or power to England in 1707. We had approximately 1/6 of the population and 1/3 of the land mass. We had far less wealth, but then England also had a huge level of national debt, which we did not possess. And militarily Scottish armies were a significant addition to Marlborough’s forces on the continent during the War of the Spanish Succession. But we were a sovereign nation and therefore equal in terms of legitimacy to the kingdom of England. We certainly deserved better representation in the Westminster parliament as a kingdom and sovereign state than the Duchy of Cornwall. If we had been accorded more equal treatment then, it is less likely we would be having this debate now.

  45. The internet has played a major role in this referendum debate. This democratization of debate has been vital in putting forward the case for independence, without it the British establishment and the No campaign would have had the debate all to itself. Part of the reason I feel confident Scotland will vote Yes is the continuing decline in hard-copy newspaper sales and the strong showing of pro-indy comments on newspaper websites. We also have many intelligent pro-indy websites like this one. The genie is out of the media bottle: the establishment’s influence is waning.

  46. lastchancetoshine

    Of course there’s the guilt trip that not voting Labour in a general election can only result in a Tory government. But you know that now you can’t put a fag paper between them either on policy or competence, my conscience is clear.

    And (god forbid) a no vote , we do have to maintain some momentum and build a better society in spite of them regardless.

    • I wouldn’t bother trying to put a fag paper anywhere near either of them, they are both now farther to the right than Thatcher’s Tories were, the wicked witch at the height of the Miners Strike never even managed to abolish student grants. I know I was a student at the time.

      There have only been two instances since the war when Scottish votes had any effect on a UK general election; 1964 & 74, but both of those administrations combined lasted less than two years.

      The Scottish defection leaving England forever Tory is merely urban myth.

  47. Good, hard-hitting stuff, Derek.

    Some time ago (about twenty years) it seemed clear that the Labour Party in Scotland could not continue to oppose Scottish independence, as inexorable pressure in that direction would crush them out of existence. The Tories were OK – Scottish votes didn’t matter to them: they knew that power in Westminster was delivered by the south east of England – whoever won there won everything. The Tories consciously withdrew from Scotland.

    Labour understood this, but couldn’t follow as they must surely have wished. Fifty Scots MPs were slurping deeply at the trough – sending them to the Job Centre with their P45s was not a scheme that they were likely to go along with. There was also a nightmare scenario: what if New Labour came clean that they were actually New Tory, and accepted extinction in Scotland? Then, no matter which party won at Westminster, they would have panda quantities of MPs from Scotland, perhaps none at all. What price the Union then?

    In Scotland New Labour are a ‘stay behind’ operation: the country was effectively abandoned but they must hang around to support the fantasy that Scots have meaningful representation in Westminster. Of course this meant saying one thing south of the border, but obfuscating or insinuating its diametric opposite in Scotland. Johann Lamont’s comical inarticulacy is in fact essential: she cannot delineate the Labour agenda without revealing them as a proto-conservative party.

    Over time, the massive gulf between what Labour say they support and what we see them supporting has become unmissably clear. If it’s a No in September, the nightmare scenario could be upon us quickly: a government in WM with no MPs from Scotland.

    And a No vote doesn’t close matters for a generation. Salmond shook hands on that deal, but the rest of us didn’t…

  48. Great stuff Derek.

    I have spoken to many Labour voters in the past and present and most have given up in the hope of change under them.

    Many see the SNP as a “left of center” party and vote accordingly and many see the referendum as a means to bringing Labour back in line. They will vote YES and Labour afterwards.

    Me , Never again will i trust Labour. They have lied and scared and deflected from every question these past two years. I don’t want a govt that has frightened the people into submission. They are dictators and have lost any respect i had. I am not alone.

    After a YES win these politicians will come out with every excuse they can to win back support and if you believe any of that then you deserve what comes. YES voters are aware of what they are doing now. No more listening to the BBC or MSM . They have proven themselves to be liars. How can we trust them ever again.

    I was a soft no voter once. Foodbanks and the attacks on the disabled made me angry and when i looked for myself i saw the full weight of the state endorse a “project fear” campaign on this country. It disgusted me to see so many mouth vile twisted untruths. Are these the people we want to represent us??

    Time for a change

    Not long to go and we ARE winning. Get out on the streets and see if you have doubts. YESSERS are everywhere and the NO voters and campaigners are shipped up from down south because no one will work for them here. Says it all.

  49. Robert Graham

    if you ever have wondered how we are regarded by our large neighbour its right there in front of you on your very own TV screen courtesy of the BBC team Englands cyclists helmets “the union flag” its a subtle way on reminding you _ its their flag **their pound **their parliament**their red arrows**their BBC – do you need anymore proof of how you are regarded all thats required to take your country back is this “X” its that simple if the majority vote no so be it lets just sit back and see the F/N carnage to follow the only consolation will be we tried if you do vote no you deserve all that’s coming lets just hope the vulnerable are not too badly damaged

  50. Don’t waste vital energy considering failure. We must all get out there and push for the only worthwhile outcome. YES, a thousand times YES!

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