Dambusters…Dresden…Hiroshima

When you’re on a war footing, it pays to plan ahead for the next attack. After softening up the enemy, the next strike must be decisive and then, to eliminate any chance of revival, you finish it all off with the final overwhelming onslaught – one that no-one can come back from. The names Project Fear and Operation Dambuster reveal to us exactly how the masters of British fair play regard the referendum – as enemy action to be repelled at any and at all cost. Why?*

 I wrote last year how the British state was Scotland’s real enemy, not England and certainly not the English people. This is the best class preservation society in history and it will do anything and risk everything in the fight for its survival. To the Establishment, this is war. Instead of having an intelligent discussion to meet each others’ needs, instead of feeling out where there might be agreement and compromise – the very diplomatic arts that Britain urges throughout the world, including in the Ukraine right now – they put on their fatigues, broke open the weapons cabinet and prepared to blast the very people who are supposed to be on their side in this family of nations.

bw09

After the Dambusters the next assault from the Whitehall War Bunker is Operation Dresden. I suspect a spy in the England-conquers-all camp would discover that this involves throwing more legal principles and international norms out of the window after having declared first, in their legal opinion, that Scotland does not exist and then announcing collectively that the UK currency is theirs alone. Dresden will state that only assets currently situated in Scotland can be claimed by Scotland. There will be no share of facilities, staffing, resources or accounts which are positioned outwith the borders of Scotland. There will be access to some defence assets but these will require to be paid for. As for facilities overseas like embassies and consulates they will also be out of bounds. Likewise there will be no sharing of consular facilities, although London is currently proposing to share with Canada. The principle of agreeing a proportionate share of assets will be abandoned just as the jointly-owned currency has been. There may be sharing of UK services like vehicle licensing but that will be paid for on an agency basis. They will insist that Trident remains on the Clyde or they will not support our membership of NATO. They will also claim to have a replacement port to berth the submarines and store the warheads (but it can’t be named for security reasons) and if the Scots insist, they will be prepared to move Trident but the costs and the clean-up will be sent to Scotland.

They will say that what is theirs, stays theirs. They will be rewarded by resounding cheers across England to encourage their scorched-earth approach. Commentators will take up the call. Why should we give them what is ours? They didn’t pay for it – we subsidise them…

The Yes campaign will be left searching for experts – for there will be no political friends – who will contradict this Putin-style threat. But in the meantime, the top-line message will have got through – you have nothing, you ARE nothing. It is all ours and if you leave you take nothing with you.

hn10

Lastly will come the final crushing carpet-bombing codenamed Hiroshima. This will say that the oil does not belong to Scotland. When it first came ashore it was not designated as Scotland’s by the British, but was and still is, assigned to the Continental Shelf which is why 40 years later, oil and gas are not recognised as Scottish assets and our Treasury-produced national accounts appear without it.

Of course this is clearly ridiculous even to a bleeding-knees Unionist but the retort will be simple – you can have a population-based share of less than nine per cent.

No country, no currency, no external assets and no oil. Look up – that’s a mushroom cloud you see.

Now you may be thinking this is madness because it’s shot so full of holes. But so is their legal opinion and so is their currency position and until and unless they see a change in the opinion polling, they will believe this is working. It doesn’t matter that you lie, it only matters that you get away with it. By the time the pro-Yes voices can get in a logical response, the message to those who can’t or don’t find out for themselves, will be hammered home – they really do control us and there is no point in fighting back. Even if they’re only half right in the claims they make, many Scots will argue, it makes for a very bleak picture and nothing like Alex Salmond’s optimistic vision. Why was I taken in by him?

This is already one of the dirtiest campaigns in Britain’s history and no lie is too big to tell, no stunt too offensive to pull. The social democratic Scotland that devolution has carved out has created a perception that Britain was relaxed about our constitutional journey. We are used to easy relations between Edinburgh and London and began to believe that this was a mature and equal relationship which, faced with an independence-lite platform including sharing currency and debt, would elicit a fair, even generous, response.

Don’t be taken in. Britain is fighting on the beaches, in the streets and through the media and fighting for its life.

*You’d think this would be a major media talking point. If things are as bad in Scotland as we are told, why would the London mob not just wave us goodbye? The answer to this is simple and comes in sections.

One, they can’t afford to lose Scotland. We are 10 per cent of the UK economy. We contribute significantly more than we take out. We are net exporters adding serious foreign exchange heft to the UK accounts. Britain is bankrupt with ever-rising debts and a second housing bubble en route. Borrowing costs are coming under threat and without us would certainly rise.

Two, it would be a global humiliation which would seriously weaken Britain’s international reputation. It would destroy the Tories reputation and cause the earth to shake under the political establishment (Labour). Britain’s position in the G7 is jeopardised, as is the permanent UN seat and it loses voting power in Brussels.

Three, we’ve got the nukes. This is the basis of the relationship with the US which defines the UK’s world role. Remember the US general who doubted Britain’s capability as a full-on partner recently? Losing nuclear weapons would drop Britain to Ruritania status.

One of the saddest and most damning truths of the whole campaign is that it has become a boys’ gang-hut game with blood-curdling threats and militaristic language when it should be a mature and friendly negotiation. Instead they have made it Britain at War.

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92 thoughts on “Dambusters…Dresden…Hiroshima

  1. If they want war, then we will give them war.

  2. Just think a post-NO Scotland will be a hellish place after Dambusters, Dresden and Hiroshima.

    It ensures a future YES vote.

  3. At the moment Scotland is part of the UK. Circulating negative briefings about Scotland to foreign governments about Scotland (as has admitted recently in Westminster) constitutes an act of sedition against the existing state.(the UK). The real traitors here are in the Westminster government and their supporters in other parties. They would damage the UK, with negative consequences for the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland as well, in order to maintain their dominance and access to Scotland’s assets for their own ends.

    There is no possibility of a mature conversation with these people. It is entirely against their selfish interests to permit any reasonable discussion, hence the blustering by Johanna Lamont the other day.on STV. Stand firm against their threats. Talk to people about the real situation in Scotland. Join YES groups. Show the Westminster elite that they are yesterday’s men and women.

  4. I have only two little words to say.

    Grass roots.

    That’s the most important way to ensure that yes wins.

  5. Great stuff Derek. There were also in today’s Herald two excellent pieces of writing.

    David Pratt recounts his recent experiences around the world where he is impressed by how many people think we should go for “Yes”. His article is called – “Inside Track: Thoughts on independence from the worldly wise”

    You’ll get it at:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/inside-track-thoughts-on-independence-from-the-worldly-wise.23599084

    Ian Bell looks at the Outlook reports in a very strong piece called – “870,000 good reasons to stop playing fantasy politics”

    You’ll get that at:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/870000-good-reasons-to-stop-playing-fantasy-politics.23597179

    I have mentioned Galloway as the “Cradle of Independence” a couple of times on this blog referring to Bruce’s successful guerilla war of independence in the 14th century. It looks like we are getting together no a bad team of guerillas to fight a new war of independence now, not with the sword but with the pen.

    Some real stalwarts are emerging as things hot up.

    Strength tae yer elbow auld son, Derek.

  6. C’mon Derek What you have written is wild exaggeration. The UK may threaten some of those things but they could not put them into action after a YES vote.

    “they will be prepared to move Trident but the costs and the clean-up will be sent to Scotland.”

    They can send the bills wherever they like but Scotland won’t pay. Just as we won’t take any debt charges if no Currency Union. And if (you) they think blocking Scotland from Nato is a bargaining point then (you) they are living in the Land of the Cuckoos. Their ridiculous threats haven’t worked so far and the more they threaten the less effective their next batch of threats become. They really are intellectual pygmies.

    • Take a look at Holy Loch on Google Earth. The footprint of the US Polaris base is still there. Undeveloped save for the marina at one end. Why? might it still be contaminated? The FUK could just pull out their subs and warheads, shred or remove the paperwork and sail, drive away, leaving everything for us to clean up.

      Look at how hard it was to make the RAF take responsibility for the cleanup of Dalgety Bay from the radioactive dials dumped there en mass.

      We may well have to take them to all the international tribunals we can with them threatening trade reprisals in defiance of Europe etc.

      • The Navy need to clean up their mess in South Fife as well if reports of CS137 being found are correct.Almost certainly from the nuclear powered subs at Rosyth.

      • The R.A.F. Had nothing to do with Dalgety Bay, t’was the Navy’s in the shape of the Fleet Air Arm.

    • Andy MacNicol

      When the US navy left the Holy Loch, I was involved in the debate over the clean-up of scrap metal and other rubbish on the bed of the loch. One of the questions I asked at the time was why the UK Government was paying for the clean-up when it was US rubbish. I was told that the precedent had been set and the host nation pays. It was only a UK precedent and I asked if this was so that the UK Government did not have to pay for other clean-ups around the world like Christmas Island, the Australian desert, Diego Garcia and many others where they had left a contaminated environment. Of course, I did not get an answer. If they leave the Faslane base in a contaminated mess, they will shrug their shoulders and leave Scotland to clean up the mess as they have already done at Machrihanish and Dalgety Bay. That’s just the way they are, inconsiderate.

    • Isn’t that exactly the point that Derek is making? They’ll threaten all this to try and stave off a Yes vote – no matter the practicalities, or legalities. However, what they actually do after a Yes vote may (or may not?) be a different matter.

    • James,

      Is it not the case that the Goebbels Gang (British Establishment) are just emulating the way their type always play the game?

      You scare the peasants s**tless, they vote No because of it, the Gang win.

      These are the things and more they will say until voting day.

      One of the other commentators mentioned grass Roots – that is so right – we have to convince people of the greater potential in a future as the Scottish nation rather than what the Gang have in store for us.

      That way the rest of the people in these islands might realise what is possible.

      When we win, round 2 starts and we have to have a (partly) new team (negotiators) to get us past the ‘last’ (for the moment) hurdle — albeit there will be many more and not just from the Gang – but we shall and must be ready for them – that is part of the excitement and joy of being looking after your Country and its people.

      Kind regards,

      Ian

  7. Margaret Brogan

    Mogabee, I couldn’t agree more.
    Have a look at the front page of the Herald, David Mundell being given credence!
    I only buy it when Ian Bell or Iain MacWhirter are contributing!

  8. 10% of the UK economy? Indeed. But also about 33% of the UK land mass and a whopping 60% or so of the total territory of the UK, including ocean territory. I never really thought about it that way when everyone goes on and on about 8.4% of the population, but I’ll just bet they have.

    We have GOT to get out of this union. The time for the campaign couldn’t be better, when everything coming out of Westminster is something to run a mile from. If not now, then when?

    If even one media outlet was telling the truth to the Scottish people, we’d have the result sewn up. How can we do it with 100% of the media in the pockets of the No campaign though? And with the Yes campaign constrained to play nice or be monstered by these same media?

    You know what? I’m terrified.

    • I really agree with you, Morag, about the media. You’d think that someone would go for it. It would give them a place in history. There’s one thing, I shan’t be defending the BBC or its licence fee when the Tories come gunning for it – and I never thought I’d hear myself saying that.

  9. James Coleman, I think you misunderstand Derek. I don’t think he’s even suggesting that Westminster either could or would do these things after a Yes vote. What he’s suggesting, and I suspect he’s right, is that Westminster will announce over the next six months that it intends to do all that. These naked threats will be given 100% credence by the media, and the voters deluged in propaganda about how we’ll be alone, friendless and penniless if we vote Yes.

    The intent is to achieve a No vote, regardless of the tactics used or of the veracity of their claims. It doesn’t matter that all you say is true, James, that it’s wild exageration and that most of it would be unenforceable even if they were to try. The BBC, STV, the Herald, the Scotsman and every other newspaper the length and breadth of the land (and several other lands too, probably) will assure voters that every word of it is God’s honest truth and very frightening indeed. Nobody will criticise Westminster for taking this line, rather Westminster will be portrayed as the fair but stern teacher forced to spell out the real implications of what its recalcitrant pupil is planning to do.

    They don’t care how they achieve a No vote, whether it’s by promising the undeliverable (devo-max) or threatening the unenforceable. They have their compliant media to make sure the voters get the un-nuanced message. This is why I am currently terrified.

    • James Coleman

      “Morag: I think you misunderstand Derek.”

      I didn’t misunderstand him. I knew he was talking about during the campaign. And I was telling him that most Scots are not swayed by the threats any more. Sticks and stones and all that …. And it is unlikely that most even notice the threats, since they are not political anoraks. All that Derek, and a number of other Indy Bloggers, are doing with wildly exaggerated scaremongering articles like that above is playing into the NO camp’s hands.

      We should instead be ridiculing the idea that their threats have any real meaning. And we should be more optimistic.

      • Well James, I hope you#re right. I worry that we’re talking to ourselves in this little cybernat bubble, reassuring each other that canvassing returns (in Easterhouse) are great and hey I just found out a guy I know who was a No is now intending to vote Yes, while at the same time actual opinion polls show that No is leading by around 12 points and any shift to Yes is agonisingly small. I worry that while we know the threats are empty, people who watch TV and read the papers will be sucked into believing it all and voting No for fear of the reprisals. I just hope you’re right.

      • apologies James if you think I misinterpreted what you were saying and I understand why you are saying it – but we do have to be thinking ahead of the Hooray Henrys and their lackeys and what serious stuff they will try to disrupt changes to their way of life. Cheers,

        Ian

    • Morag,if elections were won by the media (as in the Sun what won it),the SNP would not have had a majority in 2011.
      People know when they are being deceived and I am more optimistic about the outcome because of this.

    • Morag.

      I agree we need to get the message out to those people who will only ever read the daily rags and listen to the BBC. They truly believe what the MSM say are the “facts” about the future. How you can have a fact in the future beats me. They will never look at the Internet or seek out a different opinion.

      While we talk amongst ourselves and think everything is going well, I am not so sure.

  10. These tactics if they were implemented would lead to another Ireland…except much worse!

    Lets hope wiser counsel prevails.

  11. Don’t forget arresting the Scottish Government and sending in troops, as trying to take the pound is an act of aggression.
    Not joking, I have seen this in the comments columns of, not only the Telegraph, but wait for it, the Guardian.
    The population share of oil has turned up quite a lot. The Queen is apparently owned by England.
    The extraordinary thing is all the vitriol and frantic threats from the Treasury and the Westminster Parties, along with their reps in Holyrood, has exposed their weakness.
    Not only to each other but to the wider world. it is hard for them to argue with any credibility when they are seen lashing out wildly and hysterically at a country with a tenth their population.
    Domestically, Labour come out by far the worst. The Tories do what they always do, no surprises, but Labour are well on their way to disintegration as Party of the people.

  12. Derek, anyone reading your article and maybe voting No on a gut feeling should then ask themselves , what comes after Hiroshima?
    We had Labour in Downing St and Labour in Holyrood, yet the only time any hint of change is when the Nats are in a strong position. I firmly believe Westminsters tactics are twofold. 1. Cow Scotland as you describe above 2. Decimate the Nats permanently.
    If all the gut voting Nos really think the Referendum is some personal ‘vanity project’ of Alex Salmond and are not bothered about the democratic deficit, the worthlessness that people feel to the point of not voting as nothing can change, the acceptance of the hand dealt to them, then think again because think about Derek’s article, then realise OFCOM have just agreed UKIP is to be given ‘priority status’ in the run up to the Euro elections.
    If there is a No vote , you No gut voters are going to have to get off your backsides and fight for the Britain the BBC portrays. Imagine, a decimated and cowed Scotland, with yes voters disappointed and not sharing your enthusiasm ,UKIP in the ascendency, pushing the desperate Tories and Labour establishment , with the public collateral damage and ask yourself , was this what I voted No for?

    • Good last paragraph.

      Maybe we could add that at the tail-end of an updated list of facts/fairy tales conjured up by the bullies an which appeared in the rags and the tv as a pamphlet for the knows and don’t knows.

      Ian

  13. I nearly forgot, David Mundell said a Yes vote would be an aspiration with no legal status.

    • I rhink maybe he only said that the proposed date for independence day was just an aspiration with no legal status, implying that these pesky negotiations would take much longer than 18 months. But I’m open to correction.

  14. Much as I have been saying since the referendum became do-able, they’ll pull all the dirty tricks they can, and give way to nothing unless they’re forced; striking out in panic because they know they need us more than we need them.

  15. Derek

    I totally agree, currency was only the start. Aided by the sham that is our media in Scotland, we are going to see a scotched earth approach as we lead up to September. I would hope that the YES Campaign have thought of that also and are preparing for it as best they can, although we have to accept that the media will make it impossible to get the YES message out there through traditional means.

    However, it is mostly a bluff as you have implied. They are fighting to maintain this unequal union because without Scotland what is left of the UK becomes a very different place both here and abroad. They are not only afraid of what they lose again both here and abroad economically but the real fears may well be the response of the rest of the UK. Will the people’s of England , Northern ireland and Wales decide that they want real change also, will they decide that the current vested interests and neo conservative policy which maintains an elite is at an end, I suspect they fear that more. They fear that the people of this island grow a pair and say ” we will no longer bend and scrape, it is our country and you know what we are actually more powerful than you”.

    I hope it will be a big YES from Scotland and I believe it will be close , a hell of a lot closer than Better Together will ever admit to, but I also know from my own personal feelings on the issue that nothing will be the same again. In the event of a no vote we will have a very divided Scotland and UK. For me, I understand the need to respect the result and move forward as best we can, make the best of the decision made, but there is also a part of me that knows I will never feel the same again about NO voters or the three mainstream political parties and some of their members.

    I suspect, no matter how childish and small minded, that I will forever resent the people who I feel will have robbed myself and my children of a better future, of a better future for Scotland. But most of all I will hate labour, liberal and tory for their lies, their bullying, their greed, their elite and their arrogance. The decision we make this year is bigger than most of the people I speak to understand and it is bigger than the media will ever admit to or report honestly. This is a war and if YES lose then I do fear for the way ahead in Scotland, we will have held 4 kings and lose too a pair of hearts and the implications of that on our character and our country doesn’t bare thinking about.

    Sorry for the long post but anyone considering voting no better understand that once you do Westminster is coming for whats left and no matter what you say or how you feel nothing will change that because you will have given up your rights as an equal and will accepted your lot as a broken minority. We will go down in the history of the world as cowards for having been afraid to break with the last of the empire. Sad but it’s how I feel.

    Bruce

    • Great post Bruce, agree with every word!

    • I agree with everything you say also.

      I am terrified of a No vote and I am at the stage where I wouldn’t care if they left us to clean up the mess as long as they leave us.

      They are completely stupid as well – there were enough folk in Scotland who would have been more than happy to vote to remain part of the union if they had genuinally ‘love bombed’ us.
      If they had said we respect you, we know you are a wealthy nation and we look upon you as treasured cousins – OK a bit soppy but words to that effect.

      Instead what they have done is to make most No voters fearful – except those MPs who sold their souls to the devil a long time ago and made those commited Yesers even more determined.
      We have to win this but too many folk have no interest in politics and think they’re all the same etc.

      We are so lucky to have AS – he is an astute politician which is why he has to be demonised.
      In the end we might win because big business might force the issue – they will only support Gideon et al whilst their share prices keep up.

      I’m beginning to think that is why the CU was put forward as the preferred option and stuck to despite cries for ‘where is option B’ – it might focus the minds of big business.

    • Plus 3&4 Bruce, could not put it better.

  16. The British State might just implode first, judging by it’s lack of foresight concerning things other than the City and urban dwellers, according to George Montbiot :

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/03/rich-landowners-farmers-welfare-nfu-defra

  17. Steady on guys. We don’t want to frighten the horses. I’m 100% Yes and you’re scaring the shit out of me.

  18. You are correct, Derek, WM/London need us far more than Scotland needs WM/London. Compare and contrast their single sabre-rattle against Putin with their demand that they need £100Bn for Trident replacement. Their stance is supported by the other failed Empires (France) and increasingly a bankrupt (financially & morally) USA. They, WM (all three) will subject Scots to extreme abuse.
    Look how cleverly the Tories orchestrate the demise of Labour in Scotland! Look how Labour as a Party with no Power at Holyrood now wants to stop the SG visiting any premises in Aberdeen (the Scottish Government, for Chris’s sake), Earlier, at Stirling they wanted (since reversed) to stop the Saltire being flown and are ‘Staging’ a Military Day (noble enough?) to ‘Clash’ with Scottish Bannockburn celebrations. North Lanarkshire Council (again Labour) plan to announce closure of 5 RC schools. I may be wrong but, have Labour Councils now organised organised a COLLA (Confederation of Labour Local Authorities in opposition to COSLA) as their aim seems to be the removal of any reference to Scottish.In NLanark. to revive some Billy/Dan agitation in advance of Sept. 18th Vote? by threatening RC schools? It is becoming clearer every day that there is no Labour Party in Scotland, and all decisions are being taken in London, the Dark Star or (Solihull HQ). Former Labour voters see this ever clearer and know the truth. The once dominant Party is in danger of signaling it’s own demise in Scotland. Scottish Tories like Carlaw, sniff the opportunities for his Party, though he would have to replace his leader to benefit. Tories in Scotland could warn their BT partners about the ‘wilderness politics’ they suffer still since Thatcher. Do you think they will, OR, rather, look with glee as Labour fall to Cameron/Osborne’s toxically-baited, sucker punch?

  19. The “No” campaign has been founded on outright lies and baseless fear-mongering from the outset. It was quite humorous in the beginning, as it was all based around the non-entities of Alistair Darling and Blair McDougal, and we got to watch their scare stories being debunked one after the other. That was the level it stayed at until George Osborne’s little jaunt up here to lecture us on the currency resulted in a 9 point jump for the “Yes” vote. That’s got them so scared now that they’re gonna act like the proverbial rat trapped in a corner, and come out fighting in whatever dirty way they can. The fact that they were in the corner of their own accord doesn’t even cross their minds. Their mindset is “We’re British, and we are always right, and always know what’s best!”. The Scottish Government has tried to be fair and reasonable all the way through this campaign and, despite an almost total media blackout on anything positive for the “Yes” campaign, we’ve slowly and steadily made up the ground. Now we’re quickly approaching the peak of the hill and the British State will do whatever they can “in the face of such adversity”, resorting to their warmongering form.

    They worry that losing Scotland will be an embarrassment to them within the international community when they SHOULD be more embarrassed about the number of food banks that have had to be opened up all over the country!

  20. Have you broken into Better Together HQ and stolen their plans, Derek?
    Doon the Wattergate?

  21. hi derek, last week you mentioned new stats on canvassing our housing estates but didnt say what they were due to it being in the press at weekend. i seen nothing in the press regarding this. can you reveal what these results were please.

  22. Arthur Ballantyne

    If Labour is seen to back these claims it will become totally unelectable in Scotland. It’s nearly there already. Such would be the SNPs mandate we wouldn’t have to wait long for another vote.

  23. BBC Scotland is still playing its part in the campaign – did anyone hear John Beattie’s programme and his ‘neutral’ economist? It almost beggars believe that they can get away with this garbage. I’ve always thought that JB was pretty straight so it was very disappointing to hear the piece. He wants to be very careful or he’ll be tarred with the brush of corruption as most of his colleagues. To be fair to him, he read out a few texts of complaint at the end of the programme but by then the damage had been done.

    I would have thought that he was big and honest enough not to have to pull stunts like this. Perhaps he was mislead by his producer or editor or whatever they’re called. If he values his reputation, I hope he’ll make an apology on air. (He says, desparately seeking for someone of integrity on BBC Scotland).

    • His Interviewee, Merryn Somerset Webb is Editor -in – chief at Moneyweek. I wouldn’t describe her as a neutral economist.

  24. Dear goodness Derek, but the tone of your blog has become increasingly shrill in the last few weeks.

    I shudder to think how intolerant and ill-tempered the YESnp campaign will become as we near the vote and it becomes clearer that Scotland remains unconvinced by their politics of grievance and gripe.

    When you say ‘the British state was Scotland’s real enemy’ who or what do you mean by ‘Scotland’?

    The majority of Scots believe that it is in Scotland’s best interests to stay in the UK.

    Doesn’t that mean that the British state – who you claim is fighting tooth and nail to keep Scotland in the UK – is in fact Scotland’s real friend; it is, after all, fighting for the majority of the people of Scotland’s wishes?

    • “Dear goodness Derek, but the tone of your blog has become increasingly shrill in the last few weeks”

      Hi Mr Falkirk,

      Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you read Derek’s excellent blog, you could always scuttle back to the Scotsman site.

    • Andy MacNicol

      The British State is not the people of Britain. It is those who consider themselves to be the elite, the Establishment, those who think they are born to rule. It is like a mutual back-scratching club. They keep themselves in this position by favouring others in the same club.
      Recent examples like privatisations where the price is set artificially low for their city friends to buy and make a healthy profit when the shares assume their natural position. Payback for this is in the form of large donations to the Conservative Party which, in turn, will guarantees an ermine robe at some time in the future. They can then continue the merry-go-round for their own friends and so it goes on. None of us will ever join this club, the most we could hope for is a few crumbs from the table.
      It was, at one time, almost entirely a Tory club but Tony Blair as Prime Minister, managed to change the rules slightly and we now see the Labour hierarchy abandoning their principles of supporting the working man as they struggle to get a place in the club. I despise them all and everything they stand for.
      I would hope that in an independent Scotland we would get a government which works for ALL the people and not just for the benefit of the few. There is no hope whatsoever of achieving this in the UK, there are too many vested interests to allow it to happen. THEY would never allow it. Scotland on its own at least has a chance.
      This is why I am voting YES.

    • Jings, all you have to do is mention the British state and its inherent nastiness towards any dissent and up pops Falkirk’s own Brit-Nat stormtrooper. No doubt keen readers will remember this wannabe gauleiter defending rendition flights, the Iraq invasion and his hero Tony Bliar in the old Herald comments section.

      Funny how he was totally silent when it came to defending Falkirk Lieboor party, Unite et al during the Ineos debacle. Not so much as a cheap cheep from him then………………

      I suppose he fancies himself as some sort of Falkirk equivalent to that other Brit-Nat giant Terry Kelly, someone else who thinks the truth is whatever they say it is.

    • Correction: The majority of Scots ARE BEING TOLD that it is in Scotland’s best interests to stay in the U.K. They are being subjected to the same lie in various guises by self-interested politicians who pull strings for the tabloid rags and other rags which, although not of the tabloid variety, nevertheless ooze the atmosphere of comics. Let’s hope the majority of Scots are politically astute enough to recognise that the YES campaign aims to make winners of the people who really matter, those who live here.

  25. bigbuachaille

    Complicit in this increasingly terrifying scenario is a Scottish Labour Party, whose sole aim in this referendum debate is to wreck the SNP. If a new vision for Scotland gets in the way of Labour’s aim, then Scotland will be sacrificed: ie wrecked.
    A number of decent Labour folks have spoken out in favour of YES.
    Thousands of ordinary Labour supporting Scots must now reject their party’s slavish support for the British State and join the movement for democratic change before Scotland is wrecked.

    • “A number of decent Labour folks have spoken out in favour of YES.”

      Not enough though. I have to believe that there are many more in the Scottish Labour ranks, at Scottish and Local Authority level, who are struggling with their consciences with regard to how the party have been acting.

  26. Hmmmm, you gotta wonder why Derek has gone down this route, being realistic, or does he know more than we do via his reporting connections? While they may, no will, threaten very much more, it is hard to see how they could pull them off in the real world. What would remain of their coveted “International Reputation ?”, Derek supposes the would not care, to a point that may be true but it would further quicken the total collapse of the UK. Rather than being their much vaunted beacon for democracy, they would be ridiculed across the world when they try and speak up for it. That still matters to them.

    They will threaten, they will say inexcusable things, they will try and scare us to death, but if we do not wilt and do get a YES vote, they will know that it makes sense, no it is imperative, to from a currency Union. They WILL be between a rock and a hard place, it will make sense in the aftermath to shake hands and work with Scotland rather than against us. Derek suggests that they will be anything but reasonable, and I think he is right on that, nevertheless, there will come a time that they will have to change their attitudes. The ruination of the whole of the the UK is likely if they persist with their ways, middle England will never forgive them. As will Scotland. Especially when it COULD have resulted in a good relationship.

  27. Yes Carthannus the neutral economist was getting to rant level as she piled made up figures on top of made up figures. I do hope an analysis is made of her comments so we can get some balance. Cheers up folks pupils at Dornoch Academy voted 57% YES 43% NO after hearing the facts from both sides. Cheers

    • Absolutely fantastic news from a great school! There you go, Derek, we’re well on the road to success now. With Dornoch Academy leading the way forward YES is a surety!

  28. They didn’t pay for it – we subsidise them…

    This has been embedded in their minds by consecutive Westminster governments since the 1970s. They really do believe that it is the case that we could not survive as a nation without them, and that gives them a sense and belief of being superior to us.

    If Scotland votes no it will confirm for them that we are incapable of standing on our own two feet, and cannot manage without their largesse. Their belief in being superior will be reinforced.

  29. Grahamski: there might be an argument that the British state (or more accurately the Westminster establishment) was fighting for the wishes of the majority of the Scottish people if those people were able to access accurate information regarding the referendum debate through newspapers or broadcast media. Since that is manifestly not the case, your argument falls at the first hurdle. It might also be believable if I thought that the establishment had an understanding of social democracy, and was trying to introduce policies to improve our educational attainment, health outcomes, wage inequalities, poverty markers etc etc etc. But they’re not, they’re trying to maintain their own position at the top of the heap. I grew up as a child in a single-parent family in a mining area in the 50s and 60s, and was lucky enough (as a result of the policies of the then Wilson government) to go on to university. I hold no hope that a similar child now would enjoy the opportunities I did.

    If the British state truly has our interests at heart, could you explain what part of the great overall picture is played by keeping 47% of children in Glasgow living beneath the poverty line whilst these same people subsidise wealthy tax avoiders and “sporting estate” owners who pay no business rates on their estates? If you honestly don’t see that the information available to the majority of the Scottish electorate is biased and carefully managed (and I don’t for a minute think you do believe that, I think you just have the paternalistic attitude that you know better, and we can’t really trust the natives with real democracy), why would a site like WoS have succeeded in raising over £100k in under a week? A year ago, I believed the BBC to provide an accurate and largely unbiased output. I now believe it to be incapable of accurate news reporting. I don’t think I’m alone in having undergone that conversion.

    • I guess i am a lot older than you, Bigbricks, so I have for a long time now, not trusted the BBC, having watched their partisan reporting over many decades and remember the massive distortions of truth with the likes of the miners’ strike, the Balkans’ campaign etc., leading to the Iraq war. You have at last noticed the bending of the truth which has been going on during this referendum campaign but believe me, this is just the BBC and the rest of the media doing what they have always practiced. It has certainly got worse over the past twenty years but largely, the method now is the method then.
      I remember the late, redoubtable Charles Wheeler of the BBC chasing down a story after the first Gulf War which gave the lie to the notorious incident of Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators during their invasion of Kuwait. This had been accepted everywhere with horror throughout our media as fact, whereas it turned out to have been a story manufactured and promulgated by a media firm hired by the Kuwaiti royal family.
      I think the attitude now would be to shrug and say that, fair enough, Saddam was a monster, but I think someone like Wheeler understood why truth was so important in the bigger picture. In other words, if a case is strong it should stand by itself and not need embellishment and as Reith of the BBC pointed out to Churchill, during the war, about war time propaganda, if you are caught lying how would people know when you are telling the truth? There is not, in my estimation, anyone like Charles Wheeler at the BBC now.
      The BBC now finds itself in the position to which Reith referred and rather like the media of the former Communist bloc countries whose output was disbelieved by a large section of the population. They had samizdat: we have the internet. But like Morag, I too am apprehensive. If a government and political elite can get away with such a monstrous act as taking a country to war, as in the Iraq war, based on a flimsy lie, despite it now being openly acknowledged to be so, then they can easily do what Derek Bateman has suggested.

      • I agree. If the case for Scotland remaining as a part of the Union was sufficiently strong, the establishment would not be resorting to lies by omission and evasion, and bias on the part of TV and radio interviewers (although I’m disappointed that the non-BBC channels seem to be no more neutral). Morally, at least, a case which requires this sort of propaganda and spin doesn’t hold much water. However, the last thing that the establishment can afford the UK population to start thinking is that there is another way of doing things. That if the £50 bn given out as bonuses to UK senior bankers in the last 8 years or so had been put to sensible use, we might not require foodbanks. The attitude of the establishment is, as always, that some lives (theirs) are more important than others. I just hope that a sufficiently large number of Scottish voters can be persuaded that we can choose different priorities, even though that would not be easy, but the first step on that road can only come after a yes vote on September 18th.

  30. Duncan Mitchell

    Bigbricks,
    You are not alone. I for one have been insulted and saddened by the decline in the standards at the BBC. I cannot accept anything they say ( Or do…eg interrupt those supporting YES but not those supporting NO). Unfortunately others are also biased ( eg. the Metro! ).
    Thank goodness for Derek and the other side of the argument.
    I wondered how long the No Campaign would take to attack Derek but now that Grahamski has arrived from his other anti independence contributions on Scotsman etc. we know. I’m sure that he won’t be the only one to appear!

  31. Andy Carruthers

    It is good to see that more people are seeing the British state for what it truly is and what they are capable of, wether people like it or not this was always going to be a fight to the death, in one shape or another these people have been in power since there land grab in 66, alas for them all that in breeding has deadened there cognitive facilties, all empires rise and all empires fall, when they fall it is always with a hope that bringing the power to the centre will slow or stop there decline, what they forget and that which history so abundantly makes clear is that when people come to the conclusion they are no longer afraid then no amount of lies/bluster/threats will stop them from realising there dreams, as a side note to the posters above who feel slightly uneasy about what Derek is saying I would say this, Independence is a self forfilling prophecy, it always was-you can take the man/woman out of nature but not the nature out of the man.woman.

  32. Hi carthannas, I did hear the ‘neutral economist’. Her floral language gave the game away. There were 2 ‘extremelys’ in one sentence. You would never hear a professional use unqualified and emotive language like that. John Beattie should have challenged her, wouldn’t you agree Derek. I agree with one of the texts questioning the producers on whether they had checked up on her qualifications. I intend to put a complaint into BBC Scotland and then copy onto Facebook.

  33. Just come off the phone with a friend, also a YES activist, whose wife, like me, no longer watches news from BBC (or STV) for that matter. He does watch, in order to deconstruct the lies and spin, but she gets so annoyed that the TV is at risk. I now understand what Osborne is really doing. He is attempting to stimulate the economy by provoking democrats and independence supporters to such ire that they take it out on their TV sets, and hence buy new ones on a regular basis.

  34. this british state will do anything to stop a yes vote being returned (ie) Dr David Kelly weapons expert who allegedly committed suicide before revealing the truth about weapons supposedly in the possession of iraq,and after the revelations about GCHQ all these blog sites you/tube etc are being monitored even the civil servants advising the scottish government have regard for one employer only the british state so any new or different move by the “YES” campaign is and has been monitored by these people actively conspiring against the democratic will of the people in scotland i would even suggest the voting papers from polling stations to the vote count be very carefully monitored trust them yeah sure as far as i could toss the tossers

  35. Jeez Derek, you’re angry these days. More power to you.
    The biggest danger is Daily Mail public opinion. The Westminster government is actually very weak, just look at the clanger dropped in Downing Street when a long lens caught the briefing notes regarding Ukraine; “No action as it will upset the City of London.” Who do think calls the shots in London? It’s the bankers and the Daily Mail. The Mail is especially to be viewed with great nervousness. If it starts ramping up public opinion and painting a picture of the coalition government as a bunch of wimps for not bringing Scotland to heel, then you can be guaranteed that we’ll be seeing some unwelcome action. Governments and especially British governments hate to be seen as all talk and no trousers.
    With the economy in tatters it’s common for governments to look for distractions to get the public off the scent. Whipped up by the Daily Mail, add some South East Brit Nat patriotism, a few nods to Winston Churchill, appeals to rally round cherished symbols of Empire, roll out Her Majesty and blow the whistle. Before you know it we’ll be listening to Jim Hood telling the Commons that the Government did the right thing and that he’s proud to join the Tories in bashing his uppity, misguided, fellow Scots. All heil Dave and the team. Peerages all round for Scottish Labour and the First Secretary to the Treasury.

  36. I made a comment on Stephen McCabes Twitter (and Inverclyde’s Better Together page) that the kids in the schools that were denied access to the Yes Scotland site will soon be voting in council elections, and wished him luck. Next thing I see, he’s following me on Twitter. Should I be worried? o.o >.> <.<

    Actually, good luck to him. I tweeted 6 times last month, which is about 5 tweets more than I made for the whole of last year 🙂

    Oh Oh, but I forgot the main thrust of this comment….I've worked out the solution to ALL our problems…both those of Scotland AND of the UK…….Let's sell London!!!! It has to be worth a few trillion pounds, which would pay off all the debt AND leave Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales with plenty of cash to each go independent. We could even chip in with some of the shipping costs to cart it all away. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. Good plan or what?

  37. Articles and comments like these are full of fear, completely energy-sapping and detrimental to what the YES campaign are trying to achieve. There is a quote “there is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve: the fear of failure”. I think it was Napolean who said, I don’t see any obstacles, I see only my goal, or something to that effect. Now is the time to be strong of mind. Fix your focus on only a YES vote and don’t even contemplate any other outcome. We can and we will do this. We have the manpower, we have the passion, we have the dream. We will make it come true.

  38. Duncan Mitchell

    Doug, Very good! Especially your comment about Grahamski!

  39. Westminster thought they were going to walk off with a NO vote from the independence referendum just as they did with the PR vote when the Tory/LibDem coalition came to power, but troublesome Scots have other ideas.

    Scotland needs to face up to the fact that Westminster has nothing to offer Scotland but more of the same incompetent governance Scots have endured for decades.

    YES campaigners should be pointing out to undecided voters that they should be asking themselves why it is that Westminster is fighting so desperately to hold on to Scotland if it is really the basket case that Westminster claims it to be.

  40. Think you’ve finally admitted what many of us have been telling you for some time Derek. It’s time for us to get out because staying in even without oil and anything we can hold onto will seem like a great result compared to what they have in store for us if we decide to stay in.

  41. Ladies & Gentlemen.

    Stand firm on the soil of Scotland, release your fear & anxiety, remain calm, polite & undiminished by those that would do us down. Be circumspect, confident & safe in the knowledge that a victory awaits us.

    Do not give in to the darkness or the possibility of failure. We will triumph, as truth & hope defeat lies and terror.

    We are in the last death throes of a once great Empire, those days are long long gone. A new Scotland is possible, are you ready to build it?

    Believe. Believe. Believe.

  42. We need to make territorial integrity an important part of our campaign. No per capita right to oil or fish, no Gitmo / Sevastopol on the Clyde. A clean break, essentially UDI, and they can keep the debt.

    For there is no negotiation in any sense I understand the word.

  43. Derek’s right. Read the UK govt’s analysis papers and it’s all there in black and white. Scotland has no right to anything at all. The message is repeated from one to the next. They’ve prepared the ground.

    We’re wasting time tyring to counter each scare story as it appears. We can win back a little ground, but then the next scare hits the press (cf Robert Peston tonight) and we have to start all over again.

    There’s two ways to counter this. One is at the grass roots level with the very simple message that it’s your country, your future, and if you’d rather have the dambusters taking decisions for you than your own people – well just take a wee look at what they think of you.

    The other is ridicule. It’s not something the establishment understands or can easily counter. We’ve already got some fine people taking the piss. But we now need to step up and collectively laugh at them. Take the hatred and exaggerate it to the point where it collapses – take all the fine ideals of British imperialism…the white man’s burden….the land of hope and glory….and apply it – through verse, song, and scathing satire to show what a hollow farce the establishment has become. Take pen to blog, and do it.

    • douglas clark

      kinivie,

      Absolutely right. We have absolutely no chance of winning this on their terms. We will win this on the doorstep.

  44. I don’t think anyone should be in any doubt about John Beattie’s politics. He has been quite scathing in the past regarding independence. As for taking the “economist” to task – that would/could never happen. The guy ain’t up to it. He’s a truly hopeless, hapless and inept broadcaster and his programme is dire.

  45. Well written Derek. They, the establishment, will stop at nothing to achieve their aims, in this case a subservient Scotland. Remember Hilda Murrell, Willie MacCrae and Dr. David Kelly. I really do worry about Alex Salmond’s safety.

  46. Here is a link to the propaganda that was employed in the Quebec referendum, it is long, but for those interested you will see how the Canadian Government went against accepted “truth rules” to eventually win by a tiny margin. However, where the Quebec Independence campaign lost, was their failure to broaden their appeal to ALL residents of Quebec, the target their own support rather than also targeting those in other parties who were sitting on the fence. Thereby not persuading these possible swing voters they failed by the smallest of margins, had they done this, they would have won.

    We have two similarities in our own referendum. 1, The Westminster government are following the path of the Canadian Government. 2, The YES campaign includes all the other parties, this is a very big difference to the Quebec campaign. One that may give a very different result.
    However, here is the link, it is a long article but it does explain all that was done via propaganda by the Canadian Government which the British State seems to be following. It is an interesting read if you can last the distance.
    http://cjc-online.ca/index.php/journal/article/view/743/649

  47. Here is the definition of propaganda as undertaken by Goebbels, if you scroll down you will see his rules on the subject, you will recognise most of it, http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

  48. A good article with valid warnings for what’s to come. (I’d request you edit out ‘the’ from in front of Ukraine, though. They dislike that about as much as we hate Britain/England being used as synonyms). It is time, as another correspondent mentioned, that we stop reacting and start proactively cutting off their arguments. Once their lies are out there it is all but impossible to remove them. As my granny said, the more you stamp on keech the further it spreads.

  49. Over the winter a whole range of negative articles and comment in the right wing press seems to have had the aim of ‘monstering’ the Scots. What I mean is portraying a target group by the establishment media in such a derogatory way that ‘strong action’ against them by the British State can be justified and sold to the public. This is a standard procedure in the run-up to external military intervention, for example, or prior to an internal State ‘clamp down’ on some kind of undesirables. What I have found perplexing is envisaging what kind of ‘strong action’ against the Scots the English population is being softened up for. Maybe this explains it.

  50. I must disagree with the sentiment of Bateman’s last paragraph here. The NO campaignIt may well have descended into “…a boys’ gang-hut game…” But there is only one gang in this hut,and it’s they who are Issuing ” …blood curling threats…”

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