Who’d want to share anything with this lot?

Third post of the day and me with young children to put to bed!

My position has not changed…I thought Carney was measured and fair, giving benefits (which as I said earlier he rushed through at the start but that wasn’t what the mainstream media types were after) and he gave an objective assessment of potential obstacles and compromises. The only question I have about his effort was in trying to compare the Eurozone with the UK. He missed the key point about the problems with the euro – that it was attempting to tie together disparate economies with totally different approaches to tax and spend. The northern part has worked extremely well and guess how much the euro has varied in value throughout the crisis? Next to nothing. It is rock solid and arguably safer than the pound. It was the countries in the south which created the problems and that is completely different to Scotland where as even he admitted there is almost total integration. He made the case for monetary union.

The media as ever fell for the briefing line. Remember, the papers yesterday before Carney spoke were full of government briefing that the governor would warn the Scots of the dangers. The dupes dutifully complied, including the London-based BBC. Carney would show his speech to Downing Street or the Treasury and they would sign off on it beforehand so they knew the content. So the briefing began and the journos simply waited till he hit the button they had been told to prepare for and bingo! they’ve got their story. Sad to see the BBC falling for it and Peston’s analysis all based on poor wee Scotland failing to pay its debts and having to be bailed out by London and England, didn’t pause to ask himself who ran up one of the highest sovereign debts in the world, currently heading for £1.5 trillion pounds…and who has balanced the books over the last seven years in Scotland? A real contrast with Brian Taylor on Radio Four who gave a seriously measured and balanced analysis minus the London twist.

Metropolitan superiority on show tonight…even on liberal-minded Channel Four where Matt Frei (ex-BBC) ended up taunting Swinney with: Why should WE pay for Scotland’s debts? We? We? Surely you are British, Matt, and this is a shared Union and even after independence, there will be rUK taxpayers in Wales and Northern Ireland? But then they like the Scots, don’t really count, do they? Not like the London-based English elite. He seemed to assume that it’s him his Anglo-centric chums who pay for everything. Thank you, Matt. Thank you. You are playing my tune. Funny how a programme so committed to a bleeding heart support for every minority on the planet turns into a raging hotbed of establishment bigotry when it comes to Scotland.

I thought Carney laid out almost word for word what is in the White Paper and poor old Alistair Darling is showing why he has gone down as the (second) worst Chancellor in history by declaring that a monetary union which he himself endorsed is a non-starter. They keep asking what the alternative is. Wouldn’t they get a shock if Salmond told them it was our own currency and we were out of sterling. How fast do you think they can back-pedal? A bucketload of metropolitan arrogance and automatic assumptions of self-justification from the British media tonight – enough to make even Don’t Knows say: If that’s what they really think of us, time to get out.

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57 thoughts on “Who’d want to share anything with this lot?

  1. Derek, I think there is a little gem in there which few have spotted and that is Carney’s reference to Jim Mirrlees, the Nobel prize winner in economics and member and part originator of the Fiscal Commission’s view that on balance a Sterling zone currency union would be the best fit for Scotland on Independence. Carney referred to him as his mentor. Now I don’t think Mirrlees would not have thought through all of the consequencies for both Scottish and rUK economies of a currency union. I therefore ask myself what was Peston’s game in uttering all the doom and gloom rubbish about Scotland as a basket case economy because of oil volatility?

  2. cynicalHighlander

    All of the MSM is a total disgrace and shows the UK up as being no different from any other tin pot dictatorship one wishes to name.

    • Channel 4 rarely ever deign to even mention the referendum but when they do they betray their establishment leanings. Their egos also tend to get in the way. Very disappointing when one would have hoped for something a bit more objective..

  3. “Alistair Darling is showing why he has gone down as the (second) worst Chancellor in history by declaring that a monetary union which he himself endorsed is a non-starter.”

    Alistair Darling has flipped

  4. only got to look at how England has re-written Scotland’s history throughout. The Cathkin Braes still aren’t in the history books even today

  5. The BT and media response has been pathetic and stands no scrutiny whatsoever. As usual they are reliant on much of the electorate not understanding the issue or being apathetic in finding out. Articles like Derek’s are important and we must share these as widely as possible.

    The problem BT have, as we have seen from Spain and Norway this week, is that the scaremongering and misinformation unravel quicker and quicker and as each scare story is exposed as nonsense BT lose even more credibility. If we had a fair and balanced media the YES vote would be over 70% already.

  6. I don’t know why you are surprised, Derek.
    We are taking on the British State, and it was always going to be dirty.

  7. Matt Frei (ex-BBC) ended up taunting Swinney with: Why should WE pay for Scotland’s debts?

    Swinney should have asked him, who is WE? He should then have slapped him down with a reminder that it’s not him his Anglo-centric chums who pay for everything.

    I really wish that Swinney and Co, when being interviewed by these bigots, were a little bit more aggressive whenever Scotland is being belittled. One sure way to get more Scots onside is to show them that you’re sticking up for them when some-one is attempting underrate them.

    • Same as when Swinney was on Question Time – excellent as always as the calm man with the answers, but woeful in putting down scare stories and getting off the back foot. Really see why the SNP needed Salmond back as leader – Swinney’s the perfect finance minister but he’s not nearly politically minded enough.

  8. It all seems to be falling apart at the seams for them.

  9. Matt Frei of course is German.

  10. Getting aggressive over London media taunts just sounds defensive and will change nothing. The SNP have come a long way by refusing to be drawn into wars of words. They just plod on inexorably because they know they are channelling a movement in Scotland that has been building for decades and will not be deflected by media froth and spin.

  11. What will be nice though is when we get a media that reflects Scotland in all its diversity. News, entertainment, interest stories, social debate, history, science, culture, and sport all from the perspective of a new and vibrant nation. I’m really looking forward to that.

  12. No are finished.The monkey is out of the bag.Darling just sounds like a conceited school boy.Salmond is playing with the big boys while he sneers and froths at the sidelines.Salmon’s won’t debate with Darling because he is a nobody.A back bench opposition mp who failed in government.For the record Salmond would eat him for breakfast but what’s the point its meaningless to debate with someone with no position in government.The games over Darling.

  13. The currency is the single biggest problem we face, in many ways the less attention it receives the better, and recently it had somewhat dropped off the radar, but Carney’s speech has re-activated the feeding frenzy that happens any time the press sniff something which can be twisted so as to be fatal or damaging [or insert whatever negative adjective you choose] to the independence cause. I am just waiting for black hole to appear again…must be there somewhere?

    This is a frustrating issue really. There is simply no way the SNP can provide certainty on this issue, all they can really do is be as upbeat, reasonable and positive as possible and try and put the emphasis on the other side to provide answers (frustratingly, despite being impeccably neutral Carney has given them some ammunition). I almost think in a way this might be the one issue where they really need to play on national sentiments, as much as that is not the YES way. It needs to be emphasised over and over that the pound is ours as much as theirs. We helped to make the cake and we are entitled to a slice at least. The YES camp fired off an email to activists this afternoon re-iterating the message on the currency front and summarising how activists are encouraged to debate it. This is fairly unusual actually. I am always rather surprised by how few emails come from YES HQ, whereas on the other hand the local activist mailing list generates anywhere between 5-10 per day and sometimes a lot more on certain days.

    This is a classic known unknown, and however reasonable we know the arguments are, negative politics will win votes for BT on this issue, and they won’t let go of it that is for sure.

    The press are beyond contempt and the self-righteous comments to Robert Peston’s article had me ready to hurl my laptop against the wall in disgust. If I didn’t need it to write my Ph.D. thesis it would not have survived the day…

    • Don’t waste time worrying about these arrogant characters because a YES vote will win with ease. Get that thesis written!

      • I like your confidence Jan, and I believe overall people will take the opportunity, but equally there will be some frustrating days along the way when we need to suffer the bile, bias and bellicose of little England in all its importunate glory!!

  14. BBC Interviewer: “You said agreeing a currency union will be very difficult. Explain why?”
    Carney: “No. No I didn’t.”

    Not the story Peston was off spinning but he has form, bringing down HBOS in the run up to the 2008 crash so HBOS could be sold on the cheap to Lloyds Bank, leaking news of the potential Chinese take over of BOS to spike it … insider information from the UK Treasury / Labour Chancellor … a good Labour chum … awfully like the links between Labour’s Scottish ‘Officers’ and BBC Scotland …

    Even older friends who are staunch ‘No’ (basically because they are in their 70’s and shit scared, claiming they hate Alex Salmond but a big part is denial they have been taken for idiots for years) are accepting a ‘Yes’ is increasingly likely and already they are blaming the Tory lead campaign and a series of stupid decisions at Westminster for putting Scots off the Union. They are starting to understand more and more Scots see a ‘No’ vote as a vote for the Tories, that Labour has major splits in Scotland and the STUC are starting to line up behind Labour for Independence as are ‘Labour people’ their generation.

  15. i for one new this would happen they have nothing in there locker it’s empty and the english ex finance guy darling is the usual empty barral

  16. BBC Radio 5live today began to run with its “news” of the “risks” of a sterling zone for Scotland. Perhaps due to pressure, it did start to point out the “benefits” of such a zone. I am still bemused that they are all so concerned by the “risks” to Scotland of a sterling zone. It’s never bothered them before.

  17. It’s like Thatcher never existed. Deregulating banking was started by Thatcher and Regan. The Scottish Gov never even existed when the Bnking deregulation was going on. Fred Goodwin started in RBS in the early nineties, brought in performance related pay and pressurised the staff to sell, sell, sell. Thevreason for mis-selling. The middle management were given offer they couldn’t refused and retired. Twenty year old graduates were brought in as replacement, because it was deemed more profitable.

    Thatcher demutualised the Building Societies, owned by their members, sold off the shares so the Banks coukd get hold of the Mortgage books, which gave them the monies to gamble. The Housing/commercial Pozxi sector was in London S/E and the Midlands. Thatcher deleveraged the Banks (from 25% to 13%) along with Clinton and Brown. ‘Inside Job’ is an account of what happened. Some of these ‘financial journalists should view it.

    These ‘financial reporters’ are as thick as mince. The US/UK Treasuries caused the Banking/EU crisis. Morgan Sachs was even involved in Greece’s entry into the EU. They falsified the Books to get Greece into the EU, when Greece did not meet the criteria. US/UK are printing money – devaluing their currency. The ECB will not print currency. Germany doesn’t what to print monies to devalue, because Germany did it in the Weimar period (1920’s) and went bankrupt. One of the reason for 11WW.

    The countries in the EU most affected were borrowing monies from the London lending markets. Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Iceland. Two bankers from Iceland were borrowing monies in London and buying up British companies, Debenhams etc. When the Icelandic gov came to sell the ‘assets’ to pay the debts, the share value had fallen. A Banker and politician went to jail in Iceland. Interest rates there have been lowered for three years to help people clear debts.

  18. Why don’t they pay their own debts. The same with education, they expect a smaller country (of 5 million) taxpayer’s to pay for their kids education. Expect rebates from the EU, which other countries subsidise Borrow and spent like mad, as for the Oil revenues! Cheapskate, Press liars.

  19. Sorry to bore you with this, but this is important to me.

    My Mum, a lifelong Labour Party voter, told me tonight she is going to vote Yes.

    I couldn’t believe it. I come from a staunchly labour voting family going back three generations, though I am a SNP voter.

    My Mum can’t stand Mr. Salmond (she’s not alone in that to be fair, though I think he’s genius). And she would probably never vote for the SNP. She is though, most importantly, going to vote Yes.

    Again, sorry, a nothing comment, but if my Mum can turn her back on the wishes of the labour party to vote Yes, anyone can.

    Well done Maggie McErlain!

    • Brilliant Dewey!

      If we only win this referendum by one vote it will be your Mum’s vote.

      My thanks to your Mum.

    • Hurra for your mum, every day as I work in peoples houses I talk to them ( I’m a chimney sweep ) and every day I “convert” a few more, small steps people but they will all add up. Let’s all stay chilled, avoid anti English rhetoric ( no point in giving NO a stick to hit us with ) and keep on going till the polls open.

    • Brilliant post Dewey and well done Maggie on taking the positive plunge. I bet you feel great, don’t you. Now go spread the word about that positivity!

  20. Actually I wish we did decide to have our own currency and tell the gnomes in London where to stick their currency!

  21. I laughed when I saw Peston and his stink bomb column. However, I don’t see him as an honest broker in this debate and he pretty clearly nailed his colours to the mast. The thing is who needs the journalist and TV analysis? Carney’s speech and his question and answer session afterwards was clear enough. A well constructed currency union will work. It will require both parties, Westminster and Holyrood ceding a bit of sovereignty to the BofE and if the two sides agree to that the BofE will make it happen. If David Cameron is minded to not agree such a union then I am sure there will be other chips on the table he will be happy to sacrifice instead.

  22. Dewey Cox, so glad to hear your Labour voting mum is voting YES. It heartens me and many others no end. And for the record. it is not a Nothing comment, thanks for letting us know.

  23. What’s interesting (and gratifying) is the measured approach of Carney’s speech and the measured response of the SG. Compare and contrast with the hysterical screechings of BT and the MSM. Confidence versus fear I’d say.

  24. Hi Dewey Cox great news if we all get one no to move to yes we will walk it – I’ve got one and working on more Cheers

  25. More than enough has been said by others here, so i’ll haud ma wheesht sic and merely 2nd the sentiment above. Well done Maggie McErlain!

  26. hear! hear!

  27. Jim Naughtie reported this morning that The Herald is claiming that Salmond is under pressure to come up with alternative curry plans. Not Khushi’s then?

  28. It is heartening to read so many YESnp supporters’ enthusiastic support for a fiscal union between a separate Scotland and the rUK.

    However, their support for a currency union which involves ceding sovereignty and more important handing responsibility for setting our interest rates, income tax rates and spending limits to the rUK is puzzling. Is this the same corrupt, elitist, incompetent and thoroughly rotten UK from which we are so desperate to escape?

    Shurely shome mishtake…

    So we now have the SNP campaign suggesting the best way to escape UK austerity is to bind ourselves to it both in our fiscal and monetary policies.

    The best way to escape from the UK’s xenophobic immigration policies is to leave the UK then agree to share that immigration policy in return for an open border.

    The best way to rid Scotland of nuclear weapons is to give up political control of them while joining a military alliance which insists on its members supporting a first strike nuclear policy and allow its vessels bristling with nukes access to our waters.

    The SNP campaign doesn’t lie in tatters after Mr Carney’s speech but the YESnp campaign does.

    A YES vote is a vote for the SNP’s white paper and all which that implies: this is no longer a vote for hope or a socialist utopia but is now a vote for a narrow set of essentially neo-liberal policies which change nothing other than hand Mr Salmond control over the population while he hands control of our economy to a foreign country.

    And the cybernats call us traitors….

    • You’re sounding a bit desperate Grahamski.

      The bottom line is that an independent nation can decide itself on which alliances to join or leave. Scotland can then – at any point – choose to leave Nato, to join EFTA, to start it’s own currency. You know this, but continue to bang the same drum. Why do you have so little ambition for your country?

    • cynicalHighlander

      If Scotland votes Yes & keeps the pound, do we gain sovereignty or lose it?

      The answer is we gain as at the moment Westminster holds our sovereignty.

    • C’mon Grahamski you and BnpT are overegging the pud on this scare story as usual. No-one has said for how long a Currency Union (CU) will last. But probably no more than the few years during the transition from being part of UK to fully Independent. And negotiations for a CU would take place AFTER a YES vote so if rUK tried to put unnacceptable conditions on a CU then maybe there wouldn’t be one at all. Scotland needs a CU less than England.

    • I don’t call you a traitor Grahamski, I disagree with you, that’s all. I suppose you would call me a “cybernat” though because I support Scottish independence and I have a computer. That could be inferred as calling me a traitor to the british establishment. I think we’ve all had enough of the name calling, don’t you agree?

      What you failed to mention in your comment is that sovereignty (another word in this case for an agreement or setup) would have to be given up by the rUK as well. Spending and borrowing limits would have to be agreed both ways. Do you think we would get into an agreement that controlled only Scotland’s spending and borrowing? No of course not. What if the Ruk govt decided a few years down the line to devalue the pound. That would have a profound effect on our economy.

      I’m sure a working arrangement isn’t beyond the people involved, politics is just getting in the way. Don’t forget that Scotland is an exporting nation and England (if you’ll forgive me mentioning it in isolation) is an importing nation. If Scotland changed about and suddenly formed its own currency, that would cause us a few problems but the upset to the balance of payments south of the border could cause major instability in Sterling which would require staged devaluation to improve exports and deter imports. Costs of everything would suddenly increase. In other words the rUK could become more of an economic basket case overnight than it is right now. That’s the reality of the situation and is the reason that after we return a yes vote, common sense heads will come together to make a currency union work in everyone’s best interests.

      As a promoter and supporter of Scottish independence I certainly wouldn’t want any turmoil regarding setting up of our own currency to happen. Sterling gives us the best start and protects the interests of everyone else. I, just like many of the yes side have friends and family living in all parts of these islands and besides which I would want a neighbour that’s economically stable. I have a small company that does trade with customers in England and similarly I have friends south of the border who have businesses that do a lot of their trade with customers in Scotland. No one relishes paying exchange rate commissions and I know that my pals in England wouldn’t stay quiet if Westminster tried to play silly.

      As to the rest of your comment, are you assuming that everyone is going to vote SNP in as the first government of an independent Scotland? That’s a big assumption to make more than two years before an election where the other parties haven’t even dreamed up a manifesto.

      We keep telling folk like you that the constitutional referendum bypasses the politicians and even though they keep opening their gubs, it’s the question about where we would like our democracy run from and even the question about whether we want democracy that’s vitally important because we don’t have democracy now.

      In other words, I both disagree with you and you have missed the whole point of the referendum.

      Kindest regards,

      David Milligan Lvss

      • Mr Milligan

        Thanks for your considered and well-argued reply.

        I’ll take issue with only one part of it because Mr Bateman doesn’t want to be hijacked.

        You make the point that: “..the constitutional referendum bypasses the politicians..”
        yet those politicians (ie the SNP) who will take it upon themselves to negotiate on our behalf have said that a yes vote will be viewed as a vote for the policies contained in their white paper.

        A yes vote will give the SNP a mandate to negotiate a separate Scotland’s way into a fiscal and monetary union with the rUK, accept that we must co-ordinate our immigration policies with rUK and commit us to NATO membership.

        None of these agreements will be for the short term and will be taken before we can vote in a separate Scotland’s government. Our democratic input into separation negotiations does not extend beyond voting yes.

      • Grahamski,

        Totally agree, it’s just not democracy is it, how dare the SNP take us into institutions that we’re already in…oh wait a minute..

        Have to admit it’s absolutely hilarious listening to a unionist moan about democracy and representation when over the last 50 odd years Scotland has voted Labour more than any other party and yet we’ve ended up with a Tory government for more years than not.

        You’re just proving that you would prefer to be ruled by tories from Westminster than a government chosen by Scots for Scots, and with that in mind, you then come out with this howler:

        ‘Our democratic input into separation negotiations does not extend beyond voting yes’.

        Yet historically the evidence shows that Scot’s democratic input into the UK only happens once in a blue moon. England decides what government we have, the Scottish vote is irrelevant for most Westminster elections. You seem quite happy with this arrangement, but argue against the SNP staying in the EU and NATO.

        What a bizarre and contradictory argument.

  29. Serious denial from the no camp all round Derek. Torygraph BTL and Guardian CiF bringing out the brightest and the best in bitter denial. How dare Carney not put the FM in his place, by telling him to stick his Sterling zone. 😀 Shock/horror he says its feasible with some loss of sovereignty EEEEEEK! 😮

    Two or three weeks ago it was no chance, no way, no how from unionist trenches and the official line from Westminster was ‘unlikely’. Today we have HMG underwriting debt regardless of result and Mr Carney confirming which we pretty much knew would be the case anyway. Westminster is officially still saying ‘unlikely’ when pretty much everything they’ve done in this period points to ‘highly likely’.

    • If they are “the brightest and the best in bitter denial.” I feel sorry for them. The London media brigade are a shower of lazy fucking idiots who just reprint what is given to them as Government handouts.

      • Pretty grim isn’t it? They’re not happy bunnies and still at it with every new article that pops up. They’re in a state of shock that Mark Carney suggested even the possibility was feasible. When really what he should have done is beat Alex Salmond about the head with a rolled up FT autographed by Osborne and DC.

        How very dare he and the FM have positive and productive/constructive talks without a hint of violence. OHHHHHH the carnage. 😀

  30. Derek – I look back and regret times when I should have spent more time with my, then young, children. This Inde thing isn’t more important than yours, so we can wait for your gems.

    As I’ve said elsewhere, PaddyPower has just reduced the odds against a YES !

  31. All this nonsense is another confirmation that there is a bubble inside the M25 that precious few get out of to come and see what was happening in Scotland

  32. Brilliant Mr Bateman, as usual, I look forward to your blog. I was looking round for a new Directors chair the other day and spotted one that you’d like in your office when you take up your post as Governor General of the Scottish Broadcasting Corporation (or whatever it’s going to be called). It was a nice big comfy leather thing with all the tricks that you’d imagine and was a lovely cool blue. Something nice to look forward to, eh?

    Kindest regards,

    David Milligan Lvss

  33. Completely agree with Dave Millican Lvss’s first post about the effects on the Treasury if Scotland can’t use sterling. Surely they would also have to refund the money deposited against the notes issued by Scottish banks to cover the notes in circulation, around £4,000 million last time I checked. This would not be good for their balance of payments.

    I think using sterling for a transition period wold be a reasonable solution,but then we could go pour own way. In any case, it will be up to whatever government is elected in Scotland after the rerendom, not the current one.

    I get very annoyed when the British establishment implies they will carry on as the UK, and keep all the memberships of NATO, EU etc. I thought Scotland and England joined in a Parliamentary Union in 1707 and tht is what Scotland want to change. This shold mean that the ‘United Kingdom’ would cease to exist and we would revert to being two independent nations. The status of Wales and Northern ireland is more difficult, but they were never recognised as kingdoms, so there cannot be an rUK. What they would like to be called is up to them, but any suggestion that they can carry on using a modified name with IK in it is completely wrong historically.

    • Some good clear logic there Annie. Let’s see how it all pans out after the vote. Should be interesting and enlightening.

  34. Grahamski says ” …. yet those politicians (ie the SNP) who will take it upon themselves to negotiate on our behalf …..” (Post YES referendum result).

    But wait! Was it the SNP who hijacked then ruled the Constitutional Convention?

    I think not. Will it be solely the SNP negotiating on Scotland’s behalf? I hope not. Salmond, Swinney, et al would do well to include the best negotiators, from whichever party, whichever university, whichever trade union …..

  35. The draft guidelines by the BBC for referendum coverage have been published, but I’d love to know what Mr.Bateman makes of them. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/our_work/scotland_referendum/draft_guidelines.pdf.

    On first reading they seem quite strict, but then there are caveats to each item, which to my mind, leave the BBC free to produce biased anti independence coverage anyway.

    For example, point 3.1 on page 5.

    “However, referendums are seldom fought purely on the basis of just two opposing standpoints – on each side, where there is a range of views or perspectives, that should be reflected appropriately during the campaign”

    Sorry, in this referendum there ARE two standpoints, either FOR or against independence. Does that clause not just leave the door wide open to have fifty slightly differing pro union views, and just one pro independence view?

    Then to top it all, point 6.3 “Any programme covering the referendum and planning to use a (studio) audience contributing to the discussion should consult the Chief Adviser, Politics regarding the selection processes and how to achieve due impartiality. All such procedures must stand up to public scrutiny”.

    Did they just not bother when doing the live BBC debate at Strathallan School, where 1.5% of the audience was YES and 98.5% were NO??

    However, let me just emphasise that last sentence in point 6.3, “All such procedures must stand up to public scrutiny”. So it has to stand up to public scrutiny, but what about impartial academic scrutiny, like that from UWS??

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